(Solved!) Windows Audio vs. Linux Audio

[GordonS]

one can't destroy my OS.
.....
The only way to destroy my OS is to format its partition/hard drive.

So you can destroy your OS.

The main reason for not using the root account by default is to protect one's OS from one's own mistakes and/or malware.

With Windows, until fairly recently, one pretty much had to be an Administrator to use the PC for anything more than trivial tasks.

With Unix and Linux, one rarely needs to be a root-privilege user. To be so is normally neither necessary nor advisable.

[Linuxmusician01]

Sorry for the necro bump but I couldn't help myself.

1. Widows more easy in using audio than Linux because of the PulseAudio/Jack thing? Pfffff. Windows: MME, WASAPI, WDM, ASIO(4All), Windows Audio, DirectX audio.

2. Apple more easy/stable for audio? Try to install a new DAW: won't work if your MacOS version is just a tiny bit old. Try to upgrade MacOS: won't work one or two years after you bought the hardware. And the OP still uses Win XP. That OS hasn't been supported since 2014 and has been followed up by Vista in 2007. Do we really have to take a comparison of modern Linux to Win XP seriousy?

Having said that it's a pity that the OP can't get his DAW to work. Start over with a well supported distro like Ubuntu, use a lightweight desktop like LXDE and use Linux native stuff like Qtractor, LV2 etc. Then we can compare. If one uses Windows or Mac stuff on Linux the latter is bound to come out last and vice versa.

[TAERSH]

Having said that it's a pity that the OP can't get his DAW to work.

Oh my God!
One should not only be able to read, but one should also be able to understand what he/she has read.

Everything in my OS is working fine - except the Xruns.
I got Xruns also when trying AVL Linux MX edition a few months ago.
Also lots of other people/members are about Xruns constantly appearing.

Start over with a well supported distro like Ubuntu, use a lightweight desktop like LXDE and use Linux native stuff like Qtractor, LV2 etc. Then we can compare.

Again: Oh my God!
One should not only be able to read, but one should also be able to understand what he/she has read.

My OS is based on Ubuntu and it's using the packages from the official Ubuntu repository. I'm using Linux native software like Qtractor, LV2 and VST plugins. Additionally I'm using Window VST plugins via Wine. I'm using one of the most lightweight desktop environment: JWM/Rox.

Sorry, but I have to state: Sie sind scheinbar schlicht ein Depp und können scheinbar auch nicht verstehen, was Sie gelesen haben!

[Linuxmusician01]

Sie sind scheinbar schlicht ein Depp und können scheinbar auch nicht verstehen, was Sie gelesen haben!

I ain't German but I take it that it ain't no compliment.

If you've got a lot of Xruns and you say that Win XP works better than Linux then I assume you started this long topic because your setup ain't working for ya. Anyway, if you've got a lot of Xruns, your PC works fine and you use VTS's then you might have look into the Windows VST's (version 2) that you've got bridged to Linux. (Bridged) VST's are a big burden on any hardware, let alone a Windows XP PC considering the fact XP hasn't been for sale since 2007!

Not that I want to continue this discussion, but have you tried cutting the Windows VST from your setup? Or use Windows for 'm? In one of your posts you mention a very low DSP Load (lower than mine and most other Linuxers). If you have hiccups and xruns then I'll bet you a million dollars (or Deutsch Marks) that is your problem, not Linux. You complain that Linux is slow when you use Windows VST's via Wine on an old computer. Like: duuuuh! Where I come from we call that "kicking in an open door". You can also start using bridged Linux native VST's in Windows and complain that Windows is slower than Linux.

I you use Linux native VST's and plugins and your computer is from before 2007 (!) and you've still got xruns then you just might want to consider buying a new computer once every ten years...

[Linuxmusician01]

[...]

[TAERSH]

You complain that Linux is slow when you use Windows VST's via Wine on an old computer.

Again: you really should read carefully.

My Linux machine is very new. I bought it in the beginning of 2020.
BIOS Vendor: American Megatrends Inc.
Version: L3.31
Release Date: 05/31/2019
AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Six-Core Processor

The XP machine is the old computer (it's from 2009). That's why I'm still using XP on that computer, as it's just too slow for my Linux OS based on Bionic 64bit. I could run my old Linux OS based on Tahr 32bit on that computer, but not very comfortable by too less RAM.

I got those Xruns already at times when no Windows VST plugins have been used. Those Xruns increased after switching from the use of stand alone versions of software synthesizers to the plugin versions. And those Xruns again increased when I started using Window VST plugins via Wine.

Most of those Xruns seems not to affect the sound coming out of the speakers. But sometimes they do affect it.
When using/recording Audio only there's no Xruns at all. Even not at 16 or more audio tracks used.

And, YES: this was NOT a compliment. And it seems I was right with that, as you still don't read carefully or understand completely.

In one of your posts you mention a very low DSP Load.

No, I didn't do that. I just posted a screenshot of QjackCtl which showed (iirc) 0.09 DSP load.
It was another member who mentioned my DSP load being the lowest he/she ever had seen.

Maybe you got problems with your Kurzzeitgedächtnis?
Or could it be caused by the vaccine currently inserted into your body?

[j_e_f_f_g]

Windows: MME

The Multi-media Extensions API hasn't been used for about 2 decades. This is akin to saying "Linux audio in 2021 is a mess because of aRts".

MME was (sort of) replaced by DirectSound, given that MME was used mostly for non-professional audio apps. (ie, Game and general software. wave API was for pro-audio use.)

WASAPI

My fav audio API to date. Easy to program and works well. Replaces all audio APIs before it, including MME, DirectSound, wave, and ASIO.

The only legitimate criticism I would entertain about it is that Microsoft should have done this earlier, instead of DirectSound.

WDM

Windows Driver Model???? This isn't an audio API. All current windows base drivers are WDM, be they audio, network, mouse, etc.

ASIO(4All)

It's just ASIO. 4ALL is an optional bridge between the wave API and ASIO drivers, much like alsa_out is a bridge to route ALSA API to jack.

Windows Audio

I assume you mean the wave API. It hasn't been used that much for the past decade, since DirectSound replaced it for generic/game software, and ASIO replaced it for music apps. (It's like Linux's OSS -- you can find some current software that uses it, but most apps use something ALSA-based).

DirectX audio.

That would be DirectSound. See above.

take a comparison of modern Linux to Win XP seriousy?

Frankly, from 2010 to 2021, ALSA has changed/advanced even less than Windows audio APIs. WASAPI is more of a fundamental change than, for example, PipeWire (which uses the same old ALSA underpinning that existed in 2010).

Also, ASIO is comparable to ALSA direct mapped API, so a comparision between those two (at any time between 2010 and now) is fair game.

If one uses Windows or Mac stuff on Linux the latter is bound to come out last and vice versa.

This is very true. You ideally want to use all Linux native software, especially in performance comparisions. But there's a reason why so many people still use Windows audio apps on Linux, and the reason belies the problems with the design/documentation/implementation of Linux audio. If it's to improve, then Linux devs will definitely need to step up their game.

[j_e_f_f_g]

Kurzzeitgedächtnis?

Gesundheit.

[TAERSH]

Kurzzeitgedächtnis?

Gesundheit.

My Kurzzeitgedächtnis is working very well, and so it is on my Langzeitgedächtnis. (simply don't know the right English term for "Kurzzeitgedächtnis", "Langzeitgedächtnis" or if there's any terms for them)
So, your well meaning wishes should be addressed to Linuxmusician01.

[TAERSH]

one can't destroy my OS.
.....
The only way to destroy my OS is to format its partition/hard drive.

So you can destroy your OS.

The main reason for not using the root account by default is to protect one's OS from one's own mistakes and/or malware.

With Windows, until fairly recently, one pretty much had to be an Administrator to use the PC for anything more than trivial tasks.

With Unix and Linux, one rarely needs to be a root-privilege user. To be so is normally neither necessary nor advisable.

Formatting a drive is NOT destroying an OS!
From my point of view, destroying an OS would be e.g. to remove all the .so files.
If I would do that, I just press the reset button on the computer and it boots up very well. Just like a fresh install with all settings included!
I you would do that, you are LOST!
You would need to do a complete new installation including installation of all programs used plus all its settings like for the programs and the desktop etc.pp.
After formatting the installation drive I just would need to copy everything over from another backup regularly done to external HD's or USB flash drives.

I'm back at work just after a few minutes!
How long would it take for you to be back at work?
Hours, Days, Weeks?

I don't expect any OS to protect myself from doing mistakes, as all mistakes are gone after reboot - unless I rebuilt my OS with the mistakes built in.
But that would never ever happen, as I know what I'm doing in my OS as well as I know what I'm doing in real life.

There's a need only to run as user within a multi user environment (which is not the case on my computers) or for scary kiddies.
I'm not a scary kid, I'm the master of my OS and I don't want to have any master above myself. I don't even like it.

[Largos]

Xruns are your master.

[Linuxmusician01]

@TAERSH: I can handle the personal insults, even if they are in a language I don't speak. I won't report it. I'll simply unsubscribe from this topic so this is the last time you will be bothered by me. I'll also add you to my ignore list so we cannot rub each other the wrong way again.

I'll give it to you: this topic is TL;DR so I missed out on the subtleties of your setup, gripes etc. But I stand by my original reply which was not directed directly at you personally but a gripe of mine in general. If Linux in your case doesn't work in an acceptable way then I'd give op too. So @j_e_f_f_g: I still find Windows audio as incomprehensible as Linux's audio. On Linux there is deprecated audio stuff too. If one scraps everything irrelevant/deprecated then only Jack is left. One starts it with:

Code: Select all

jackd -d alsa

No need for a user to configure Alsa or be aware of it. I'm not saying the whole PulseAudio/Jack thing is great: it by no means is. But when it works for you it's not that complicated (see command above).

As for the deep technical aspect of Apple, Win and Linux audio: I've got no idea. Win and/or Apple's audio implementation/drivers and what have you not may be better technically. One uses Linux because one likes it or likes to tinker with it. The pro of Linux is that it's safe to use on older computers. Windows unfortunately isn't. I've always admired Windows' backwards compatibility. And "forward" compatibility of an old Win OS with the latest software. Try that on Linux, Apple, Android or whatever.

Everything on earth/in life comes with pro's and cons. Especially when you use one OS's stuff on another. Upgrading Linux is a horror movie if you ask me: (complicated) things have changed, your favorite software/desktop isn't supported anymore, etc. However, in a few years everybody who's just bought a Windows 10 machine will have it even worse. Win 10 support will stop and even though it's forward compatibility is brilliant, there's always that fear of a horrible computer virus on non-supported Win OS-es. Only solution: buy new hardware!

Linux is for people who can live with its quirks and limitations. I somebody can't then I respect that.

[folderol]

All rather odd
I'm running devuan beowulf on a 6 year old dual core Intel machine (3.1G 64bit). Rox Filer with Openbox desktop.
Jack Audio and Alsa MIDI. Pulse Audio server deleted with extreme prejudice!

Rosegarden + Yoshimi (with all 16 parts running quite complex patches) into a KA6 at 48kHz with buffer size of 64 frames runs at about 25% - 30% average CPU and no Xruns. For shits & giggles I'll sometime run it at 32 frames, and might just see a single Xrun

[TAERSH]

Xruns are your master.

Bullshit!

[TAERSH]

I'll give it to you: this topic is TL;DR

I'm not a native English speaker, so I usually don't understand such short-terms. If you want me to understand such, write it down with full letter capacity.
I don't care if you adding me one to your foes list. I'm going to be happy about not to communicate with you anymore instead, since you proofed not to read carefully and also not to understand completely - if any. Perhaps this is caused by me one not being a native English speaker, but I doubt heavily.

Edit:

And by the way: we will see, if this forum becomes as fascist as so many forums has already become via removal of unpleasant topics, posts, opinions and points of views.