vsthost doesn't work anymore

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Luc wrote:
falkTX wrote:It's the same issue as this one https://github.com/jackaudio/jack2/issues/183
Sounds like Debian broke something.

I hate upgrades. Hate them with a passion. I'm having a lot of small problems with Stretch. They're small, but they add up, and I can't come to terms with the fact that things were better before and should not have been changed. I'm old enough to remember a time when upgrades ADDED and/or fixed features.
It's like I'm reading my own writing. Thats why I adhere to "If it ain't broken don't try to fix it.". So-called "upgrades"? Don't make me laugh. And the only way to solve this is to install a newer distro: they very often cannot fix it in the current distro or they wont.
Luc wrote: But there is now a generation behind computers that has some strange fetish on removing features, something similar to Steve Jobs' you-dont-need-this you-don't-need-that idiosyncrasies. And they try to make that kind of attitude pass for something smart and innovative. That makes me mad. :evil:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:@Luc: you might consider starting to use Carla.
Carla is a dream and a nightmare. The nightmare part is that whenever you want to add a plugin, you have to click through multiple buttons/windows just to add a path, then it has to rescan the entire collection. It's very time consuming. I would have submitted a patch if I knew how to program those things. I just know some basic scripting.
I like DSSI and vsthost better than Carla too. But it doesn't support 64 bit (Windows) VST's. And now vsthost is broken. Aw, come on! What a shame. The reason I learned how to use Carla is because it is still actively developed and I can install the latest version via the excellent KXStudio repository. They call Debian "stable". Why? A lot of it's stuff is known to be old, broken an in desperate need for an never version. I think that the Debian guys don't back-support well enough. That's why I switched to Debian-based distro's (like Ubuntu and Mint) instead: they seem to know their business better.
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Luc »

falkTX wrote:I think you misunderstood.
Maybe I did, maybe not so much. I didn't know it, but I suspected it. I wonder (but don't really wanna know) why it was considered a bug and why it had to be fixed. What was wrong with the old implementation? What was bad that had to be improved? Was that really an improvement? Maybe it was, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it wasn't. A lot of things sold as improvements in this day and age do not look like improvements to me at all.

Anyway, I'm just chatting. Thank you for your kind attention.
falkTX wrote:In the latest version [of Carla] you'll be able to simply drag&drop *.dll files and it will load the VST plugin inside.
That is great news indeed, but... will Carla establish the output connections automatically, like dssi-vst did? I just remembered I can use carla-single, but then I have to switch to some patchbay application and connect the (usually two) outputs manually. Sounds like nothing, but sometimes I audition dozens of plugins in one sitting, to decide what's worth keeping. Doing all the connections manually is very tiresome. I asked the aj-snapshot developer to allow wildcards or regular expressions, and he thought it was a bad idea.

With dssi-vst and jack_keyboard running, I just had to hit Enter on the plugin and switch to the keyboard and I had everything in my hands: Delete would cause jack_keyboard to find the new plugin and make a MIDI connection to it instantaneously. Then letter keys would play notes, and / and * would switch programs/banks. It was a perfect arrangement for quick and dirty auditions. I would go through dozens of plugins in no time.

Carla does the job, it does many jobs and that's great, but it is terribly mouse oriented. For starters, I will have to click and drag the plugin into Carla. Then I suppose I will have to click a tab (to view the Patchbay), then click and drag output connections, perhaps even the keyboard connection, and I will have to use the mouse to play the keyboard (careful not to let the mouse pointer touch anything else in the patchbay - that disables the keyboard!), and I will have to click some drop-down box (in another tab!!!) to select the programs. It's not the end of the world, but it's several steps back from what I used to have. Not too different from a DAW, but I hate auditioning on a DAW. DAWs are terrible for auditioning, for that very same reason.

I'm sorry if I sound rude or ungrateful, I'm just really sharing a view of how computers can or should work. They should rid us of all that is tedious and/or repetitive. Windows/Mac people love the mouse, but they're usually slow learners, and it's the reason why the whole point-and-click-maybe-also-drag paradigm is so popular, because it's easy to learn. It's so called "intuitive." But whenever that kind of conversation happens, people rarely ever go one step further and realize that this paradigm is not really convenient past the initial learning stage. Pointing and clicking and dragging becomes a repetitive strain. Blunt and honest, it's dumb. The keyboard is underused, even in Linux. How would you like to drive a car with a mouse? You'd soon notice how slow your reactions would become and how dangerous it would be.

The keyboard rules. Image editing is the only task it can't do alone 10 times better than the mouse.

It's my opinion. Take or leave it, but thanks for reading.
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

falkTX wrote:
Luc wrote:
falkTX wrote:It's the same issue as this one https://github.com/jackaudio/jack2/issues/183
Sounds like Debian broke something.

I hate upgrades. Hate them with a passion.
I think you misunderstood. The fact that it worked before was actually a bug.
carla, dssi-vst, jack2 and a few others were using semaphores in a way that was not supported by design.
so they "fixed" it. the applications code now needs to be updated to match.
I've done it for carla and jack2, but did not do it for dssi-vst because I believe there are better things out there.
Luc wrote:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:@Luc: you might consider starting to use Carla.
Carla is a dream and a nightmare. The nightmare part is that whenever you want to add a plugin, you have to click through multiple buttons/windows just to add a path, then it has to rescan the entire collection. It's very time consuming.
In the latest version you'll be able to simply drag&drop *.dll files and it will load the VST plugin inside.
Need to add some options regarding wine setup in there, but the important part to get this working is already done :)
Wait a minute. Are you the maintainer of the KXStudio repo? Good work man! Super! I owe you. But if you admit that vsthost doesn't work any-more, than why does it work on my PC? Am I using an old version of the software in your repo because I'm using an old distro based on Ubuntu 14.04??
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by tramp »

falkTX wrote:If people never speak up, I won't know about those requests...
Indeed a pitta, people themes to prefer judging in forums, instead talk to the developers over the provided channels.
Luc wrote:I hate upgrades. Hate them with a passion. I'm having a lot of small problems with Stretch. They're small, but they add up, and I can't come to terms with the fact that things were better before and should not have been changed. I'm old enough to remember a time when upgrades ADDED and/or fixed features. But there is now a generation behind computers that has some strange fetish on removing features, something similar to Steve Jobs' you-dont-need-this you-don't-need-that idiosyncrasies. And they try to make that kind of attitude pass for something smart and innovative. That makes me mad.


Seems like you are getting old, man, as a question, do you like to play with your childhood synth were you synthesise animal voices, this days? So, development seems even important for you, if I get your answer as "no".
Claim down, and enjoy the feature, be part of it by join the developers any give them a "sign of your view and wishes". Don't let you make yourself mad. :idea:
On the road again.
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

@falkTX: Does the vsthost version that is in the "official" Ubuntu 16 repo's work then? And if vsthost does not work, why include it in KXStudio? And will the DSSI plugin in Qtractor still work in the future? I use that a lot.

I think we all might give some more publicity to the fact that vsthost simply will not work anymore. That will save a lot of people a lot of trouble-shooting. You do not know how long people will bang their head against the wall, trying to get something to work that they know must work because it's something simple and it has always worked.

Anyway, many thanks for maintaining the repo and all the software that you manage/develop! If you ever stop we're in a lot of trouble. :)
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Luc »

falkTX wrote:dssi-vst works on Debian 7 or Ubuntu 14.04 yes, but won't work on anything newer than that.
Debian 8, too. It's what I had until last weekend.
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Luc »

falkTX wrote:For something you use in qtractor, consider airwave or the other project I forgot the name.
LinVst
https://github.com/osxmidi/LinVst
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by gennargiu »

falkTX wrote:dssi-vst works on Debian 7 or Ubuntu 14.04 yes, but won't work on anything newer than that.
My main PC still runs 14.04 and I will keep it at least until the next 18.04 KXStudio ISO is fully ready.

And yes, I'm the author of KXStudio, Carla, Cadence, DISTRHO Plugins/Ports and a few other things, now also maintaining JACK itself.

Regarding Carla not auto-connecting and other small things - it will eventually come.
I do the things I use myself first (for obvious reasons..) but I throw in highly requested features once in a while too.
If people never speak up, I won't know about those requests...
Great falkTX :D ciao from Naples, Italy

gennaro
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Re: vsthost doesn't work anymore

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

falkTX wrote:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:@falkTX: Does the vsthost version that is in the "official" Ubuntu 16 repo's work then? And if vsthost does not work, why include it in KXStudio? And will the DSSI plugin in Qtractor still work in the future? I use that a lot.
No, because it still works on some distros, and no.
For something you use in qtractor, consider airwave or the other project I forgot the name.
I'm planning a new feature in carla where you can expose anything that carla can load as an lv2 plugin itself (be it any plugin format, bridge, sf2/sfz whatever).
So there's going to be another option for a direct-plugin-bridge soon.

one of the biggest issues with dssi-vst is the fact that it uses *DSSI*.
that makes it very limited. (no state save/load on DAWs, no MIDI out, no transport sync, requires fixed buffer size)
also no 64bit, though this is not a DSSI limitation.
not to mention that most recent hosts don't support DSSI.

I rather focus on new stuff. dssi-vst was always a bit too hacky.
Thanks for the explanation. DSSI is pretty much obsolete then. Would you be interested in publishing this in the news section of your website? I feel sorry for all the people spending time on getting it to work. They might not understand that something that is still in (official) repositories does not work and that there is something wrong w/ them.

P.S. Luckily, I can use Carla in Qtractor because Carla-rack is in there amongst LV2 plugins. :)
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