Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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baconature
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Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:04 am

Hi there,
It has been quite a long while since a need for an assist has come up. I got a new computer, Intel i5 3.30 6600 KHz chip, 32 Gb RAM, SSD, so installed Ubuntu Studio 16.04.2 which seems to work as expected. I was using Ubuntu Studio 14.04.? and all worked pretty well. I use a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 usb external sound card that worked very well from day 1 with 14.04, yet with 16.04 it doesn't interface correctly.

The issue. I do get a solid interface between the computer and the sound card, I can see and interface with all of the scarlett 18i20 channels out. That is signal from the scarlett 18i20 to the computer. I can also use the computer's sound system to monitor the audio. Yet I prefer using the head set output of the scarlett 18i20 as a monitor, but I am unable to get that connection to occur. I had thought it to be jack yet with all attempts in switching the settings in jack I fail to get the head set monitoring through the scarlett 18i20. I was using QjackCtl for changing these settings. Tonight I decided to try Cadence, finding the exact same conditions. I am using a usb2 connection in my desktop box rather than a usb3 connection, since this and what I read here on the board shows that apparently all focusrite gear is still usb2. Thus I didn't even try a usb3 connection.

Does anybody have a suggestion? This one seems odd to me, the good thing is the gear seems to work well enough to get back to work, although I've yet to try recording anything. I checked mic inputs and found the vu meters jump when they are supposed to. I simply engaged the channel and tapped on the mic stand to test that there is signal. When monitoring through the computer's audio system, the sound is fine. I've yet to put this system to the test really, as my preference is as stated above.

Any assist would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Tom
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:26 am

I forgot to mention the use of Ardour. In version 14.04 I was using Ardour 4.7 (?). In 16.04 I am using Ardour 5.8.
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

wjl
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby wjl » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi Tom,

I have a Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen only, but that works perfectly under Debian 8 (Jessie, the current stable release). I can try with an Ubuntu Studio 16.04.2 Live image later when I'll get home, will let you know if it works also.

One suggestion/hint: have you tried the included mixer with a Windows (maybe a VM containing Windows), just to check if the interface might have dropped/disabled/routed the headphone output elsewhere?

Can you also check with Alsamixer? Could be that something is shown as muted there...

L8er,
Wolfgang

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby wjl » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:15 pm

Hi again Tom,

I'm home now. Just tried it, and it works - both with normal alsa/pulseaudio (tested with Firefox and a Youtube video), and with Jack (tested with the 'jazzy' demo contained in Hydrogen, which autoconnected itself within qjackctl):

Image

So maybe test it with a clean image on a USB stick like I did. Oh, and what I did first was to select the interface in the system settings (click on the loudspeaker symbol in the upper right corner of the screen) as my defaul output device.

Hope that helps. Good luck,
Wolfgang

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:58 pm

wjl,
I am having a hard time understanding your comment.
One suggestion/hint: have you tried the included mixer with a Windows (maybe a VM containing Windows), just to check if the interface might have dropped/disabled/routed the headphone output elsewhere?


Language is difficult. You say windows, I in turn think of the operating system Microsoft Windows, which to me is equal to "the little-shit" (micro = small, soft=turd) and I don't use that OS for anything. In trying to understand what you mean, I come up with nothing. Another issue with language is the use of acronyms. If the person you are trying to communicate with has no idea what the acronym represents, communication completely fails. In this I have no idea what you mean in the use of "VM."

I appreciate your attempt to be helpful. For me that is all I see from what you presented, an attempt to help, yet communication did not actually occur. I am sorry if I am a moron, language is sometimes difficult, for me the written form is more difficult, being highly dyslexic, I do the best I am able.

Well now that I wrote this, I see you have again responded to the thread. I shall look, evaluate and check it out.
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

baconature
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Hey Wolfgang,
I gained a bit from this last post, not a lot, as I have a fresh system, pretty much, just loaded within the last 14 days. I don't do memory sticks for booting. I could try that from the .iso of the os on dvd, and I may try that next. I was under the impression that running from the live disc that most functions like those we are dealing with here, were not functional, I guess I am wrong about that!

Anyway, I did verify that the issue is not in Ardour itself, by trying Hydrogen which resulted in the same issue without having Ardour running. Again when the output of jack is set to my device [hw:USB Scarlett 18I20 USB (hw:1)] no signal seems evident in the headphones (I have also tried different headphones and input jack adapters, to verify this). When I switch the output of jack to the computer's sound card, I can monitor what ever through the system speakers.


Off th the next attempt.
Thanks again,
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

baconature
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:53 pm

Okay, I booted to a live disc, finding the same situation. And again if I switch the output to the system speakers I can monitor through them. This is likely problematic when recording with multiple people. When it is just myself it probably isn't a big deal.
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

wjl
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby wjl » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 am

Hi Tom,

sorry for my unclear explanations - I'm not a native English or American English speaker. Let me try again:

- In Microsoft Windows, and in Mac OSX you have software from Focusright which you can download for free after registering your device with them online, and after setting up an account on their site. I guess you have made that last step already, since you have the device since some time as I understood it.

One of these devices is a Focusrite-designed patchbay/mixer, a bit like Jack with the difference that you can route the device-internal signals to whatever output(s) you prefer. My 6i6 for instance has 2 separate headphone outputs, and you can route either the signal from outputs 1 and 2 to them, or the ones from 3 and 4 to offer different mixes for different people. Thought that maybe - just maybe - your device got confused or reprogrammed in a way that simply you don't hear 1 and 2 on the main headphones output. Sadly, in Linux we don't have something like this except from some attempt I saw somewhere on the Linux Audio pages but never downloaded until now.

Edit: made a screenshot of that "Focusrite Control" software in Windows:

Image

For Linux, some people were working on a patch for Alsamixer I think to make this possible. Don't know about their progress since I don't need it, but here are some links:

https://community.ardour.org/node/5751
https://focusritedevelopmentteam.wordpr ... comment-51
http://mailman.alsa-project.org/piperma ... 58821.html

(end of Edit)

And with "VM" I meant a virtual machine (running Microsoft Windows or something else within Linux).

My interface is by the way connected to one of the USB3 outputs of my - also Core i5 - machine on its back, an Asus board as well, but with the slightly older Z97 chipset. I don't think it's the hardware or the port in your case, since you can record and see the device within Linux. I assume these Focusrite devices are class compliant, so like on a Mac you don't even need drivers on Linux, only for MS Windows. Oh, and by the way - I also don't use Windows if I don't have to (my ColorChecker for making camera profiles needs it, and I also wanted to see Pro Tools Lite which I don't like, or Ableton Live which also isn't for me).

Sorry if my posts didn't help until now. Hope this one at least explains it a bit.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

P.S.: nice songs you have...

baconature
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:55 am

Wolfgang,
Thank you for the effort to help and share information. I now understand what you have said quite clearly.
It is true for me, that I don't use any Microsoft products, not ever. Mac is the same, although for different reasons, the expense of Mac is beyond my reach.

I've not worked at this project for a couple of days now. The Ubuntu Studio 16.04 system I was working on sort of broke (another mystery) so I spent many hours and reloaded it. I am also studying command line because I am so weak in computer education. http://linuxcommand.org/ Going through this process is going to help later, although; I use a terminal emulater so seldom, that I am sure I'll forget most of it, sigh!

Again thanks, for the assistance. It was helpful and may help others also.

My music is my life at present. I wish to get back to that rather than playing computer tech.
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

wjl
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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby wjl » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:08 am

baconature wrote:It is true for me, that I don't use any Microsoft products, not ever. Mac is the same, although for different reasons, the expense of Mac is beyond my reach.


Same here Tom - except that I'm still working in IT, and so I have to support customers who run Microsoft and sometimes even Apple stuff. In private, it's Linux since at least 18 years or so, and over half of that time I've stuck with Debian. Up to a point that I helped out the Debian developers at booths, conferences and so on, and at one point I was close to becoming one of them myself. Alas, no time to really do that anymore.

baconature wrote:My music is my life at present. I wish to get back to that rather than playing computer tech.


I used to be a musician when I was much younger. Aspiring rock star as I thought, and I was in the studios (like EMI Electrola) at the age of 19, when and where I really learned to play the bass. But I couldn't even feed myself from it, not to speak of a family, therefore came a long hiatus in music for me. Now I'm a hobby photographer, and my wife likes to make videos with her cam (where I can help her a bit from my experience as a sound technician), and the daughter is making music - playing piano, french horn, and recorder. And since I've got that interface and a Røde NT-1a mic for my last birthday, I also record a bit - using my Debian Jessie with some additional KXStudio repositories to come back to the topic. But music was my first love, as I cited John Miles lately over on my blog at http://wolfgang.lonien.de/ - and so I'm sometimes getting out the acoustic (nylon, classical) guitar, and play around with Ardour, Audacity, MuseScore, and sometimes Openshot for putting pictures and sound back together again. I'm also recording some videos for my colleagues who want to / have to publish things on the companies' Youtube channel - just showing them how I do it, and what to look out for especially in audio.

Soon I'll be retired, then it's Linux only for me. No need for anything else.

Nice to "meet" people like you around here, even if it's only virtual. And I really hope you'll get your headphone outputs going again.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby tseaver » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:55 am

It looks to me as though the headphone outputs might be wired up to Jack's 'playback_3'/'playback_4' channels, with the "main" monitor outputs on the back panel wired up to 'playback_1'/'playback_2'. Can you use the qjackct "Connections" tab to re-route output from Ardour / Hydrogen to those ports? Or you can set it from inside Ardour at the bottom of the 'master' or 'monitor' strips.

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby baconature » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:53 pm

tseaver,
What you say seems logical, yet, this is other than what I see in my system I made a screen shot of what is shown in Patchage of the signal routing which shows Ardour's "Master/audio_out 1" and "Master/audio_out 2" along with Ardour's "auditioner/audio_out 1" and "auditioner/audio_out 2", all being routed to going to System "playback_1" and System "playback_2" in the correct order. Those outputs from System are also sent to PulseAudioJackSink.

I am unsure of what you are referring to in Ardour, as 'master' or 'monitor' strips.

I'll try sharing the screen shot, yet am uncertain that I'll succeed in this forum, having not attempted such prior. Here goes. It looks like that was a small success, simple really, I over think some things. and now after previewing, the screenshot is showing at the bottom of the post as an attachment rather than an image where I wanted it presented. I don't fully know how the forum works with this. [img]Patchage.png[/img]

So onward, I have been considering the possibility that there is something amiss with my internal sound system settings, so I have written out a this is that as to system sound settings. I really don't know what is correct or needed in any of this stuff.

Since I don't know what correct is, I will detail out what all the settings are.
1. Here is the configuration of the onboard "Sound Settings" (volume control) with no additional sound inputs on ie. no audio playing or audio software asked to be on, by me. By default, however, I don't know as I have not altered the system settings to have any audio device to turn on at boot. I don't know what if any audio device is programmed to come on at boot.

Playback Tab:
one function available, Mute, system is on at level 100%.

Recording Tab:
"No application is currently recording audio.

Output Devices tab:
Built-in Audio Analog Stereo
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to).
Port: has 3 options available, Speakers (unavailable), Line Out (plugged in), Headphones (unplugged). Currently this is set at "Line Out (plugged in)," output level at 100%(0.00dB)
Advanced: Latency offset (currently 0.00 ms)

Input Devices Tab:
Built-in Audio Analog Stereo
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to).
Port: has 3 options available, Front Microphone(unplugged), Rear Microphone(unplugged), Line In (unplugged). Currently this is set to "Line In(unplugged)," output level at 100% (0.00 dB)
Advanced: Latency offset (currently 0.00 ms)

Configuration Tab:
Built-in Audio
Profile: has 22 options, is set at "Analog Stereo Duplex."

2. I turn on the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 and the following is altered automatically from what is stated above.

Output Devices Tab: [Addition]
Scarlett 18i20 Multichannel
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to). Output level set at 100% (0.00 dB)
Port: shows a expansion down arrow for options but nothing is listed other than its current setting “Multichannel Output.”
Advanced: Latency offset (currently 0.00 ms).

Input Devices Tab: [Addition]
Scarlett 18i20 Multichannel
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to). Input level set at 100% (0.00 dB)
Port: shows a expansion down arrow for options but nothing is listed other than its current setting “Multichannel Input.”
Advanced: Latency offset (currently 0.00 ms).

Configuration Tab: [Addition]
Scarlett 18i20
Profile: has 4 optional settings, Multichannel Duplex, Multichannel Output, Multichannel Input, Off. Currently set to “Multichannel Duplex.”

3. Turn on QjackCtl with settings of
Output Device: hw:USB Scarlett 18i20 USB (hw:1)
Input Device: hw:USB Scarlett 18i20 USB (hw:1)

Output Devices Tab: [Addition]
Jack sink (PulseAudio JACK Sink)
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to). Level is set to 100% (0.00dB)
Advanced shows grayed out, toggle non-functional.

Input Devices Tab:
Jack source (PulseAudio JACK Source)
3 functions are available to be altered, Mute audio, Lock channels together, Set as fallback (no actions with these three have been taken today, and I can't say what may have happened in the past, nor what these setting should be set to). Level is set to 100% (0.00dB)
Advanced shows grayed out, toggle non-functional.

Again thanks to all who read my nonsense. More so to those whom attempt giving their assistance or interpretation of this situation. Note, I may not be dealing with this for a few days as life is dragging me toward preparation for a gig this weekend.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Tom ~ Idaho USA

UbuntuStudio 16.04.2, Intel i5 3.30GHz 6600, Asus Q170Mc MotherBoard, 32Gb ram

My Music Site

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Re: Transition to UbuntuStudio 16.04 problem with Scarlett 18i20

Postby Pablo » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:38 pm

Hi,

Surprisingly, the system sound settings is not what you have to look at. When jack is up and running (via qjackctl or via Cadence, it is the same), jack will talk directly to alsa, leaving aside the desktop sound settings (what you describe is the graphical interface for the pulseaudio sound server, which is the default desktop sound server).

Pulseaudio and jack are not entirely ignorant of each other, though: Pulseaudio output can be redirected to a so-called jack sink. If you do so via "sound settings" and then in patchage (jack connections) you connect pulseaudio jack sink to system: playbacks, as shown in your screenshot, you will get sound from applications that are not "jack-aware" by themselves.

I explain the above because you incorrectly wrote:
"Those outputs from System are also sent to PulseAudioJackSink"
but in reality it is the other way around: pulseaudio jack sink is sent to system: playbacks (which, in turn, represent the speakers connected to the focusrite).

In any case, the above doesn't have anything to do with the problem you describe.

I don't have a focusrite, but I guess you have two options.

One of them is using another pair of analog outputs for monitoring purposes (you need a hardware mixer for this). In patchage you would connect ardour master, or a bus for monitoring purposes, to system: playbacks 3 and 4 (or to whatever jack system: playback ports that correspond to the focusrite outputs you physically connect to the hardware mixer).

The other option (which I think is what you are missing from your previous setup which used to work)
is using the focusrite internal mixer. This is where sound system settings is useless and you have to resort to a lower level mixer (here "lower level" means software which talks more directly to the hardware). You always have the good old alsamixer, at least for trying to setup the internal mixer (alsamixer in a terminal). Maybe there is a more user friendly alsa mixer for the focusrite than pure alsamixer, but I don't know.

Cheers


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