lsp trigger

[funkmuscle]

Hey y'all, I'm using the sweet sounding IMO DRSKit from DrumGizmo but I only don't like that boxy beater sound on the Kick.. I'm looking for a modern stab/click you get from the beater...

I've tried to shape with EQ but it still sounds like someone hammering nails into wood. So I figured try the LSP Trigger but that brings me more headaches as not every hit the trigger gets.

I've watched the vid from Vlad and it looks like he placed the plugin on the actual drum track whereas I watched the Audio on Linux channel and buddy seems to be using Tracktion and added the plugin to a bus track.

Both vids the fast kick was pushing the Trigger to play every note. I've tried this for years but never really needed it till now and it's not doing it. Anyone has any idea on how to work this?

[sadko4u]

So, what's your main problem with LSP trigger at this moment?

[funkmuscle]

So, what's your main problem with LSP trigger at this moment?

I need to trigger a sample for the kick drum but not all the notes trigger the sample especially when the kick gets busy or the drummer does a John Bonham gallop.

I've tried the trigger in a buss and directly on the track but still notes are missed.

I was going to try compressing the crap out of the kick so the velocity will be somewhat the same to see if that works.

It that triggers all notes then I'll record the triggered sample to it's own track then go back to my original compression settings.

[sadko4u]

You can play with release time and release threshold. Anyway, I didn't see your track with the Kick drum.
Sometimes it is really hard to trigger all 100% notes especially because of the microphone leakage. So I just add the missed notes by hand after processing the whole track by the trigger.

[funkmuscle]

You can play with release time and release threshold. Anyway, I didn't see your track with the Kick drum.
Sometimes it is really hard to trigger all 100% notes especially because of the microphone leakage. So I just add the missed notes by hand after processing the whole track by the trigger.

Thanks Vlad.. Yep that's what I've been doing. The crushing of the kick with compression actually works but I had to edit out the extra notes created by the bleed..

Ok now I know.

[sunrat]

Try using a gate before the trigger.

[funkmuscle]

Try using a gate before the trigger.

Yep always do that! The gate will clean up a lot but still the odd hi hat or something else will bleed into the close micr of whatever you're working on. Also on the ghost notes you got to be careful with how much gate you can put on and sometimes the ghost notes are a lot quieter than the other instruments that are bleeding into the microphone. Some tracks of had it work on because the kick drum or the snare drum were not that busy so then I can really tighten up the gate and just get the shots to trigger.

[finotti]

But since you are using MIDI, you do not need LSP Trigger, as you can use MIDI to trigger the samples. Or did I misunderstand what you are trying to do?

[j_e_f_f_g]

got to be careful with how much gate you can put on and sometimes the ghost notes are a lot quieter than the other instruments that are bleeding into the microphone.

I always wondered what the purpose of DrumGizmo is. It's whole angle seems to be to recreate the sound of a mic'ed acoustic drum kit with all sorts of leakage, and phasing, on those microphones (ostensibly for the purpose of "realism").

But that's what an engineer typically tries to minimize with things like gates and EQ and such. You don't want that "realistic" drum sound. You want something that that has a much more focussed and sharper sound than the real thing.

So here we have people trying to suppress the very thing that has been deliberately added to the drum sound on DrumGizmo.

Why not just use a sampled kit that doesn't introduce all those artifacts that you're trying to get rid of anyway?

[funkmuscle]

But since you are using MIDI, you do not need LSP Trigger, as you can use MIDI to trigger the samples. Or did I misunderstand what you are trying to do?

That's just for that session so yes but.. I've got the issue mostly with a real drummer and real bleed and since we ain't in a studio, well that says it all...

[funkmuscle]

got to be careful with how much gate you can put on and sometimes the ghost notes are a lot quieter than the other instruments that are bleeding into the microphone.

I always wondered what the purpose of DrumGizmo is. It's whole angle seems to be to recreate the sound of a mic'ed acoustic drum kit with all sorts of leakage, and phasing, on those microphones (ostensibly for the purpose of "realism").

But that's what an engineer typically tries to minimize with things like gates and EQ and such. You don't want that "realistic" drum sound. You want something that that has a much more focussed and sharper sound than the real thing.

So here we have people trying to suppress the very thing that has been deliberately added to the drum sound on DrumGizmo.

Why not just use a sampled kit that doesn't introduce all those artifacts that you're trying to get rid of anyway?

Jeff you are correct. That's why I love that plugin because it's not like one of those polished ones. I want to create my own sound so I want a raw drum kit. I don't want one of those polished drum kits out there where the guy has already compressed it and equalize it before putting it out there. I'm currently working with my drummer and I'll tell you this, when I get the raw tracks from him, drumgizmo is the only plug-in that I can truly say sounds like the exact tracking that was done at my drummer's house. It's just raw and I got to start from scratch. I don't want one of those polished drums at all. I can't stand them because you got to build your entire track around the polish tracks. They always tell you don't mix in solo always look at the full picture but when you use one of those plugins like the commercial ones out there, that's your starting ground and I don't like what half of them sound like so I don't want my music built around that. I want everything raw and then me and my boys will create us. If you listen to any of the things out there where they're using all of the commercial stuff every freaking song from an instrumental point of view sounds the same to me. I would just rather be pure and old school because I like that. It's just the kit that I use on there for a certain song which has nothing to do with me and my boys, the beater on the kick drum it sounds like there's no air around it but I love the sound of every other instrument in that kit. It's just the kick drum drives me nuts. You see we want that let's say Jimmy Hendrix led Zeppelin black Sabbath old school sound but we also want a little bit of modern added in there. With my real drummer we figured how to get that so I don't need samples on there but when I'm doing things like say for my niece where I have to use programmable drums, me personally I think and nothing out there beats drumgizmo. Because it's exactly like you said. It just sounds like a raw drum kit and that's exactly what I like. I want to start from scratch. I don't want some engineer doing that for me because that's not the sound I'm going for so when it's raw, I can manipulate it the way I want. Kind of like you with your orchestra stuff they are basically raw so we can manipulate it the way we want and I love that. Hopefully that explains where I'm coming from.

[sadko4u]

Why not just use a sampled kit that doesn't introduce all those artifacts that you're trying to get rid of anyway?

You're somewhere right, somewhere wrong.
First of all, you should consider the entire drumkit being an instrument. Not single kick drum, not the snare but the whole drumkit including cymbals and other percussion like agogos, cowbels, etc.
So, according to our consideration, there are the primary microphones in the drumkit. And they are... OVERHEADS. And, the second ones are ROOM microphones (if they are).
By the other side, you're right in other way - leakage of instruments. When we listen for a drumkit, we use only two ears, we don't have 16 or 20 ears for each drum in the drum set. But we are forced to use many microphones to make the drumkit sound much better and much balanced. And using many microphones causes leaks. Leaks cause phase distortion between microphones and overall poor sound if not to synchronize phase between microphones. Moreover, equalization of one instrument will cause partially equalization of another instrument because that instrument leaked into the track.

According to my opinion, the BEST sample library is that library where each instrument is present with the following setup:
1-2 tracks for the instrument's tone (these microphones placed nearby the instrument like Tom, Snare, etc);
2 tracks for the overheads (how the instrument is captured by overheads);
2 tracks for room (this is optional but allows to simulate better room settings).

So, as you see, the glue track is the track with overheads. They glue the whole drumkit together. But individual instrument's tracks can be used for the tone control independently. And we don't have many leakage and phase issues here. All is pretty clean and correct.

[j_e_f_f_g]

Pretty much agree with everything sadko4u said. So, I'll just offer a few more points (and explicit descriptions/details because I'm anal-retentive about that).

BEST sample library is...
1-2 (mics, depending upon whether you want mono or stereo, on each individual drum, positioned closely to that drum).
2 (overhead mics) for the (overall stereo sound of the kit, and to capture the cymbals).
2 (overhead mics positioned on the other side of the room to capture the overall sound of that kit in the room)

I never do room mics. I can easily add the room I want via post effects such as reverb and delays.

I favor the overhead mics being positioned close enough to the cymbals to get a close mic'ed sound, but not so close that you get phasing from the cymbal swinging. I also favor surrounding the kit with acoustic deadening material to get rid of as much room ambiance as possible.

So for me, everything ends up being close-mic'ed with minimal phasing and leakage. That gives the most versatility.

In fact, if I'm sampling a kit, I'll sample each drum without the other drums nearby (to avoid sympathetic vibrations, ie, the snares buzzing whenever you stomp on the kick drum pedal). These sorts of "ghost notes" can be programmably added if desired.

In short, the sampled kit I create is the exact opposite of DrumGizmo's approach.

[novalix]

Hi,

here is some additional trickery to prepare your track for triggering.

1. For a bassdrum you can try to scoop out everything but the sub range by low passing at about 100Hz.

2. Try sidechain compressing the most "offensive" instruments. For example, you could put a compressor on a kick track and feed the sidechain from an offending snare track. Typically you would then choose a really short attack time, a high ratio and a release time that ducks the initial transients of the snare but surely lets the compression go before the kick comes in. If there are parts where both instruments play simultaneously automate the compressor to hold its breath.
Sometimes a sidechain notch with a dynamic eq can render good results.

The best solution (imho) is to optimize the recording, so you don't have to trigger anything.