Why run Windows software on Linux?

Discuss running non-Linux applications and plugins on Linux, for example via wine

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jonetsu
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:23 pm

tramp wrote:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:But I just wanted to know why people use Windows software (DAW's) on Linux... :)


I don't know either :?: :lol:


There's not that much choice of plugins in Linux. The non-competitive environment of Open Source and the fact that people are not doing that to pay for a living makes keeping up with high-quality filters (for soft synths) and other developements pretty difficult.

In general. . This said, there are excellent plugins such as the the ones from u-he, OvertoneDSP, DiscoDSP, Tracktion, pianoteq, Loomer but all of these guys also are making plugins that runs under Windows/Mac. Could they make it with only their Linux plugins and keep up to date with developments and even be known for high-quality, without the revenue aspects of the Windows and Mac business ?

Look at all the high-quality plugins out there. Most do not make Linux versions. And they are keeping up and innovating (1) most of the time. They generate a lot of discussions, have many followers, are very active, making sales, developing new plugins, refining their algorithms, etc...

It is possible for creating music using a LInux workstation to use these plugins and benefit from those developments.

(1) Innovating that is, while still keeping in mind the user. Which is very different from academic development in which the user does not count much.

glowrak guy
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:29 am

tramp wrote:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:But I just wanted to know why people use Windows software (DAW's) on Linux... :)


I don't know either :?: :lol:

I consider windows to be a convoluted mess, I've heard that in the past,
coders were paid 'per line of code', so it's little wonder legacy spaghetti
and birdsnests are still lurking in the 0's and 1's :roll: ,

What's worse, is when some otherwise excellent developer
takes advantage of all that convolution, rather than doing their
own sensible solutions, it makes it difficult
to present a straight-forward installer and registration scheme,
which helps neither their end-users, nor themselves.

There exists a solid core of linux audio apps, what is lacking among them
to me, anyway, is first, the number, quality, and accessibility of presets.
And second, many producers can't work without their Kontakt libraries.
So wine and linvst are purposed to fill the samples/presets gaps
with a few windows softwares as needed.

Now this may seem really silly, but I'd use Guitarix far more often
if the gui had a few color options, like the burgundy of U-he's Diva
or the blue from Hive. Cheery vs dreary, simple as that.
I'd also suggest a feature and plugin freeze,
to create a few hundred excellent categorized presets, showing off
the capabilities of what you've made. Best foot forward.
Cheers

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mike@overtonedsp
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby mike@overtonedsp » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:43 pm

I consider windows to be a convoluted mess, I've heard that in the past,
coders were paid 'per line of code'...


Of course you can't know that, especially without access to the source... I suspect it is no worse than any other complex operating system - the Linux kernel might be cleaner, but I would hardly expect the average Linux distribution to be any better organized (in fact you might even suppose that a complete OS designed and built buy one company should be better than a pile of ad hoc interdependent - or not - libraries and applications maintained to varying standards by a disparate group of contributors). I doubt developers were paid per line of code, more likely that it's the huge amount of backwards compatibility required when an OS is used on 90% or more of the world's PCs, which might bloat the code.

what is lacking among them
to me, anyway, is first, the number, quality, and accessibility of presets.


When I design plug-ins, the philosophy is basically "the plug-in is the preset" - a huge amount of time goes into tuning the design to make it as difficult as possible for the user to make it sound bad, and for those plug-ins based on, or inspired by, real hardware, the same is normally true of the hardware - iconic designs which just work no matter what you do to them, and sometimes sound even better for it.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:34 pm

mike@overtonedsp wrote: ... but I would hardly expect the average Linux distribution to be any better organized (in fact you might even suppose that a complete OS designed and built buy one company should be better than a pile of ad hoc interdependent - or not - libraries and applications maintained to varying standards by a disparate group of contributors).


Recently I upgraded to Linux Mint 18.3 KDE. I installed the low-latency kernel provided by the distribution as I always do since a few years now. The package installed itself without errors but the low-latency kernel did nto show up at the next boot. Then I found out that they have a big problem regarding a terrible slowness at boot. It takes a very long time. Close to 2 minutes or so. Some searches showed up that this is a known problem. When it finally boots, the low-latency kernel is still not there. So I went back (always keep a few of these handy on adjacent partitions) to LM 18 KDE for the time being. The problem might solved I haven't checked in some time.

The basic idea is that even a high profile 'product' such as Linux Mint goes out the door with such a flaw. A new - most probably not useful - process has to wait for a timeout at each boot. They could not see it before shipping and then people started reporting about it ? Does 'QA' stand for "Questions and Answers" ?

Cheers.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:36 pm

glowrak guy wrote: Now this may seem really silly, but I'd use Guitarix far more often
if the gui had a few color options, [...]


The installed Guitarix plugins that shows off in Mixbus32C 5.1 (were installed before that at a time I do not remember) look like that. Blue is OK. But that's Mixbus32C blue.

guitarix.jpg


This said and shown, the more I create music and mixes the more I can appreciate the quality of audio over the UI apparence.

Cheers.
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AlexTheBassist
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:55 am

glowrak guy wrote:Now this may seem really silly, but I'd use Guitarix far more often
if the gui had a few color options

This definitely is! How does that affect sound quality?
glowrak guy wrote:what is lacking among them to me, anyway, is first, the number, quality, and accessibility of presets.

Wait… Presets? Are you serious? I know virtually no engineers who use them, even with synths. Skill is far more important than “training wheels” for wannabe producers.
mike@overtonedsp wrote:the plug-in is the preset

That's what I mean, but not exactly. Even if a plugin is a “preset” on its own, one should know the basics in before even touching anything. I heard tons of mixes made on those expensive (and not-so) plugins, and only a fraction of those songs sounded decent, and I heard a fair amount of good mixes made on “inconvenient, presetless, hard to master” open source plugins. As I stated above, it's the skill that makes the mix awesome. Tools are still secondary, though important.
Being creative does not imply being lazy, stupid, or illiterate.

Working in Harrison Mixbus and Ardour on KDE Neon + KXStudio.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:57 am

AlexTheBassist wrote:
glowrak guy wrote:what is lacking among them to me, anyway, is first, the number, quality, and accessibility of presets.

Wait… Presets? Are you serious? I know virtually no engineers who use them, even with synths. Skill is far more important than “training wheels” for wannabe producers.

Elitistic attitude. For example my case. Busy with work and family, started learning from zero. Picked up guitar first time of my life when I was 44 years old. Can't play, don't know music theory, don't know software, don't know terms. Trying to learn everything from composing, playing instrument, recording, mixing, mastering, etc. And now you say that sure presets for guitarix are bad thing. It is same like sayig 'it is bad thing to use pre-made instruments, you should craft your instruments yourself'.
Linux veteran & Novice musician

Hear my music at https://audiu.net/users/tawaste

glowrak guy
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:27 am

@overtone: Your need for presets is very different than
a synth plugin designer's needs, your creations replicate
hardware that processes audio, or is a new software
for processing audio. Very few controls, but each very valuable.

A synth designer must supply sound sources, and then
has to present many controls for dealing with those sound sources,
which must be presented to the the potential customer
in convincing audible ways, namely high quality and large numbers
of presets, in ever more easily accessible gui's, because that
is the competitive reality of the soft-synth market, and hence,

@Alex, the audio software market is mainly enthusiasts,
hobbyists, and working-wannabees, very few buyers are high-end
engineers, producers, and hit composers. Among normal engineers and producers,
and _average_ composers, there are local jobs and deadlines that must be met,
(not to mention personal dreams people hope to satisfy) and it is preset diving,
not Howard Scar/Hans Zimmer mastery
which they must rely on during crunch time, or in a few precious recreational hours.
Sure, if time allows, it's great to know deep synthesis and dsp, but most people
won't have that luxury, or that desire, and many are delighted to have
thousands of sounds from which they can choose from,
when enjoying the making of song or three. Music making can be a big party,
and it should be a happy one, with everyone invited.
Cheers

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:28 am

I'm still walking and taking the bus.

I haven't finished building my car.

glowrak guy
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:32 am

My wife has a wonderful piano, her presets are fingers, feet,
eyes, brain, soul, and spirit, and on good days, they are
all connected :wink:

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am

jonetsu wrote:I'm still walking and taking the bus.

I haven't finished building my car.

I need jumper cables, every monday morning :(

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:44 pm

And I've also decided to become One-with-the-Universe so in order to achieve that I have dropped all guitar playing on guitars that are not made by me. This is cheating. So now I have to build my very first guitar before I ever play again. I will start fresh for this Honest-to-Life path by taking a trip to the public library. My estimates are that around 7 years from now I should be able to play one note on a guitar that I've totally built.

... depending on how soon I finish building the car so I can go and get some nice wood.

And also depending on how much work it is to grow all the food in the backyard. Yes, I cheat a little because I haven't built the house I'm living in. Next on my path to become One.

At least for now I can make my own kvass (1) so I have something to drink during all those exciting coming years.

Hmmmm.... one of these I will have to invent my own language before I speak again.

(1)
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/08/14/204859046/america-are-you-tough-enough-to-drink-real-russian-kvas

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Loki Harfagr » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:13 pm

And I've also decided to become One-with-the-Universe so in order to achieve that I have dropped all guitar playing on guitars that are not made by me. This is cheating.


Darn!
I'm slain!

(oops, two major English Litt. masters [each side of pond] being quoted in the two previous lines, should I paint myself in oil and hit a match?)

Now, if you come to drink some kvass I'm confident there's no serious need to go invent a language since it's included in the brew ;-)

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:46 pm

jonetsu wrote:At least for now I can make my own kvass (1) so I have something to drink during all those exciting coming years.

That reminds me, I forgot to add the rosewood, koa, and spruce trees to my orchard :shock:

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Michael Willis
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Michael Willis » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:42 pm

glowrak guy wrote:That reminds me, I forgot to add the rosewood, koa, and spruce trees to my orchard :shock:

Ha! I was just going to ask if you were growing the wood yourself! As we're already way of topic anyway, I'll mention that my dad just helped me build a workbench in my garage; now I'm really considering what kind of musical instruments I can create (or even invent) in there...


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