Why run Windows software on Linux?

Discuss running non-Linux applications and plugins on Linux, for example via wine

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tavasti
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:02 am

bhilmers wrote:My music/audio workflow is almost entirely Windows binaries in WINE.

What daw / tools you are using?
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stanlea
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby stanlea » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:49 pm

If one uses Windows apps on Linux because they are fancy and work well, I can only understand that it's because Windows is paying and/or annoying in many ways. But I won't argue about Wine being superior to Windows. :D

I tend to avoid using much windows apps on Linux : gui issues, xruns, crashes....
But sometime I confess firing up Reaktor 6 and being really happy with it.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:10 pm

stanlea wrote:But sometime I confess firing up Reaktor 6 and being really happy with it.

Reaktor 6 is distributed as an iso file. How do you proceed to install this in Linux ? Do you simply mount the iso and go from there ?

Cheers.

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AlexTheBassist
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby AlexTheBassist » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:16 pm

Linuxmusician01 wrote:I see a lot of questions here about pretty expensive DAW's that are Windows native. Why not use (dual boot) Windows then?

Because people hear and read that GNU/Linux is a rock solid environment, so they occasionally give it a try. Maybe somebody convince them to taste the GPL flavour, but, as with most things, people hear first three words they're being told, and don't listen to the latter. They think that GNU/Linux is a free implementation of Windows, they never view it as another kind of OS, with its own superiority, downsides, features and concepts.
Linuxmusician01 wrote:I see people asking "does this and that work in my über-expensive Windows DAW in Linux". My position is that you've already paid company X for that support and now you ask me to do it for free.

Do you really think all those people pay for their software? I never saw a human being that paid for their Windows DAW or plugins, except those who got a stretched down version of some major DAW with their soundcard or MIDI keyboard, which they don't use anyway, because they already downloaded a full blown package from Piratebay etc in prior. Well, there are some people on Youtube, like Warren Huart, who really have paid for all this expensive stuff, but they are the smallest minority of all Windows DAW users, and I don't know any of them in real life. Even countrywide famous guys I know don't have a single piece of non-cracked commercial software. I may be wrong about some Linuxmusicians members, but not about the overall situation.

As for software manufacturers, they usually explicitly state that they don't support anything related to running their products in non-native environments.
Linuxmusician01 wrote:Linux is not stable when running Windows software.

That's not essentially true, but still is in most cases. I have a Windows plugin (rarely used though) which works like a charm with Carla bridge, and a handful of others that have a serious impact on my CPU load when used. Anyway, most of them are on my machine because of curiosity. For several years, all my needs are covered by native plugins, except sometimes I need Kontakt Player. This is the thing we really miss on GNU/Linux.
Linuxmusician01 wrote:Windows on the other hand is pretty straight forward and stable when its running Windows software.

This isn't essentially true too. That's why people ask me to move their production to Linux, especially after they see how stable Ardour and Mixbus work on my PC. Most of them fail though, but it's not of my smallest concern. They chose not to learn new tools, not me. I often see those guys either whine in my PM (“Your f-ing Linux sucks a big one! I can't get a bunch of my stolen software to run on it, it's all too complicated”, or “How do you even mix and produce, I can't see any tools here! I know there's a copy of Windows on your machine, and you do all the work in it! You lied!”), or, much more rarely, giving it up silently.
Linuxmusician01 wrote:Point is that it is very difficult to separate cross platform problems (drivers for hardware, Jack, is your Windows DAW aware of Jack, etc. etc.)

Even if a Windows DAW is JACK-aware, it can't use native JACK on Linux. Wine is a fake Windows environment, apps running in it don't have direct access to anything on the host system. You'll end up using wineasio to get it working.
Linuxmusician01 wrote:If your application of choice is not available for Linux then why not run Windows? There's no shame in that if you ask me.

Fanboyism, mostly. Anti-Microsoft attitude. Ability to run this software they need without much fuss, which still happens through constant Wine evolution. What else? I don't know.

And the last. I need to warn you that here are some SJWs who can't tolerate (oh, sweet irony!) straightforward questions and opinions they don't share. Luckily, all they can do is to blacklist you.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:32 am

AlexTheBassist wrote: Do you really think all those people pay for their software? I never saw a human being that paid for their Windows DAW or plugins, except those who got a stretched down version of some major DAW with their soundcard or MIDI keyboard, which they don't use anyway, because they already downloaded a full blown package from Piratebay etc in prior. Well, there are some people on Youtube, like Warren Huart, who really have paid for all this expensive stuff, but they are the smallest minority of all Windows DAW users, and I don't know any of them in real life. Even countrywide famous guys I know don't have a single piece of non-cracked commercial software. I may be wrong about some Linuxmusicians members, but not about the overall situation.


Wow, really ? So I'm part of the minority for having (dearly) paid for all the audio software I use ? And in many cases without even waiting for a sale to happen. While it makes me a bit feel bad since money is money, I can comfort myself by thinking that I follow the same path as I would with music I listen to: give back to the creators by buying what they produce.

Wait, I just saw you're from Russia. :)

AlexTheBassist wrote: As for software manufacturers, they usually explicitly state that they don't support anything related to running their products in non-native environments.


This is certainly the case although there are exceptions. You know, the cool ones. I'm not sure if I should mention names, although I did get support, as in sending me special debug versions for troubleshooting purposes, for a plugin that runs only in Windows from a well-known vendor. The bottom line is to try the demo fully. If it runs fine then most likely all's good.

Linuxmusician01 wrote:Linux is not stable when running Windows software.


AlexTheBassist wrote: That's not essentially true, but still is in most cases. I have a Windows plugin (rarely used though) which works like a charm with Carla bridge, and a handful of others that have a serious impact on my CPU load when used. Anyway, most of them are on my machine because of curiosity. For several years, all my needs are covered by native plugins, except sometimes I need Kontakt Player. This is the thing we really miss on GNU/Linux.


Earlier this year I started to use plugins made for Windows. All the ones I have are running nicely with three having some UI problem that I would term to be no show stoppers considering the quality of the audio they are producing. I use them on a regular basis, along with the Linux plugins. I use wine-staging with linvst. This is the most simple setup I found.

All the pieces on Soundcloud were made using Linux, most w/o Windows plugins and the most recent with.

AlexTheBassist wrote: And the last. I need to warn you that here are some SJWs who can't tolerate (oh, sweet irony!) straightforward questions and opinions they don't share. Luckily, all they can do is to blacklist you.


Unrelated perhaps, but what are SJWs ? I found Social Justice Warriors, is that it ? If so I would see the irony in there.

Cheers.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby AlexTheBassist » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:39 am

jonetsu wrote:Wow, really ? So I'm part of the minority for having (dearly) paid for all the audio software I use ?

Yeah, you are. You have my respect for that.
jonetsu wrote:Wait, I just saw you're from Russia.

Well, sometimes I fly to Finland to see my Suomalainen friends, and almost everybody there has it all stolen, from DAWs to even basic plugins. Even those who were working with Anssi Kippo and Finnvox back in the days.
jonetsu wrote:Unrelated perhaps, but what are SJWs ? I found Social Justice Warriors, is that it ?

Exactly.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby bhilmers » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:33 am

tavasti wrote:
bhilmers wrote:My music/audio workflow is almost entirely Windows binaries in WINE.
What daw / tools you are using?

DAW: Energy XT (it's pretty much abandonware at this point, but works great)
Audio Editor: Wavosaur (also becoming abandonware, but blows the crap out of Audacity)

I'm also dependent on several VST plugins that I haven't been able to replace with LV2 equivalents because of the tonal character (some compressors) or features (some synths).

I will say that using Ardour with Calf & LSP plugins is a really great setup and does most of what I need, but the workflow isn't as fast (more clicks than Energy XT, slower program launch) and Linux still needs a good audio editor. I can't believe Audacity is the go-to editor, it's practically useless and only slightly better than Windows "sound recorder." Remember Sound Forge in the 90's? There were better editors 20 years ago, what gives?

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby stanlea » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:15 am

jonetsu wrote:
stanlea wrote:But sometime I confess firing up Reaktor 6 and being really happy with it.

Reaktor 6 is distributed as an iso file. How do you proceed to install this in Linux ? Do you simply mount the iso and go from there ?

Cheers.


Installing NI products is not that easy, because when you just mount the iso, it doesn't work, a workaround is indicated somewhere in a post on KVR, but as I can't remember where I'll send it later.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:02 am

AlexTheBassist wrote:Do you really think all those people pay for their software? I never saw a human being that paid for their Windows DAW or plugins, except those who got a stretched down version of some major DAW with their soundcard or MIDI keyboard, which they don't use anyway, because they already downloaded a full blown package from Piratebay etc in prior.

I think this might depend on culture, is it culture of the country or some smaller group. Russian culture might not be most law-abiding in planet.

I don't know personally many hobbyist musicians, but nearly all of them are using legal, paid software. Reaper is most common commercial music software among my friends, and it is not so expensive.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Jack Winter » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:38 am

stanlea wrote:Installing NI products is not that easy, because when you just mount the iso, it doesn't work, a workaround is indicated somewhere in a post on KVR, but as I can't remember where I'll send it later.


You need to use the unhide option when mounting the NI .ISO files as otherwise Linux/Wine won't see all the files it needs to install, something like "mount -t udf file.iso -o unhide /mnt". In addition Native Access and some of the plugins probably need a recent wine-staging and vcrun2015 overrides installed with winetricks.
Reaper/KDE/Archlinux. i7-2600k/16GB + i7-4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, WA273-EQ, 2 x WA-412, ADL-600, Tegeler TRC, etc 8) For REAPER on Linux information: https://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/REAPER_for_Linux

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:30 pm

Jack Winter wrote: You need to use the unhide option when mounting the NI .ISO files as otherwise Linux/Wine won't see all the files it needs to install, something like "mount -t udf file.iso -o unhide /mnt". In addition Native Access and some of the plugins probably need a recent wine-staging and vcrun2015 overrides installed with winetricks.


I use wine-staging and linvst, which works pretty good and are simple to use. I compiled linvst and installed wine-staging earlier this year. I also have used winetricks for just one thing: fonts. Sinc ethen I haven't kept an eye on these. What would be the best places to check for updates and development ? I seem to recall that the linvst github or repository doe snot carry much information regarding developments and fixes. I might be wrong though.

Cheers.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby glowrak guy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:11 am

jonetsu wrote:
stanlea wrote:But sometime I confess firing up Reaktor 6 and being really happy with it.

Reaktor 6 is distributed as an iso file. How do you proceed to install this in Linux ? Do you simply mount the iso and go from there ?

Cheers.
Correct, plus a current install of Native Access,
the commands and tips to use for all that are at

https://github.com/osxmidi/LinVst

scroll down about 2/3 of the page, lots of other good docs there.

More info at https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1970905

Scroll down about 2/5 of the page, for a link to the m-soft app
that installs 'robocopy', which may be needed for many
of the more complex installers. A lot of that discussion is also regarding
installing Waves and Kontakt

Cheers

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby stanlea » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:57 am

indeed the unhide option is mandatory

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:47 pm

glowrak guy wrote: Scroll down about 2/5 of the page, for a link to the m-soft app that installs 'robocopy', which may be needed for many of the more complex installers. A lot of that discussion is also regarding installing Waves and Kontakt


Hmmm. That seems to go against my approach of not spending time trying to make a Windows plugin run. Eg. it either works reasonably well now or it's dropped.

On a related topic I heard that Reaper will add native Windows VST support for their Linux offering. Is that right ? That would be a good thing for Bitwig Stu to follow.

Cheers.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:25 pm

jonetsu wrote:
On a related topic I heard that Reaper will add native Windows VST support for their Linux offering. Is that right ? That would be a good thing for Bitwig Stu to follow.

Cheers.

Where did you hear that?


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