Why run Windows software on Linux?

Discuss running non-Linux applications and plugins on Linux, for example via wine

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Linuxmusician01
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Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:58 am

I can absolutely understand that people run the occasional Windows application or VST, even though they use Linux. (I do! :) )

But I see a lot of questions here about pretty expensive DAW's that are Windows native. Why not use (dual boot) Windows then? Because producing music with a full blown (semi) professional DAW requires hours of work. So booting, or choosing, an OS especially for that makes sense to me. You can use Wine to run the occasional instance of MS Word if Libre Office won't do for certain functionalities. But if you have to write Word docs for your work 8 hours a day I'd do it in Windows. Running it in Wine or a virtual machine is too unstable for such a long period of time.

I see people asking "does this and that work in my über-expensive Windows DAW in Linux". My position is that you've already paid company X for that support and now you ask me to do it for free. Or rather: to solve problems that other people get paid for. It surprises me that some aren't embarrassed to ask for that. And running software that's programmed for OS A on OS B is asking for stability issues. That's whay there are Linux alternatives for every single piece of software in the world. Linux is not stable when running Windows software. Windows on the other hand is pretty straight forward and stable when its running Windows software. If you're going to look at the interface of a certain DAW the whole day through then it doesn't matter on which OS you run it. So why Linux then if you don't choose to run a Linux native DAW?

Point is that it is very difficult to separate cross platform problems (drivers for hardware, Jack, is your Windows DAW aware of Jack, etc. etc.) from the "real" problem w/ the DAW or Linux itself. Why do that if not for the occasional lightweight app? Why torture yourself to run a heavy application like Ableton Live on Linux? I'd look for an alternative or I'd buy a Windows PC for that...

I don't know about y'all but I do not take topics/questions serious that involve running non-Linux DAW's or heavy duty applications. Linux is great and there a more than enough stable "comprehensive" (for lack of a proper English word) Linux native alternatives for any serious work that you'd want to do on a computer. If your application of choice is not available for Linux then why not run Windows? There's no shame in that if you ask me.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:36 pm

Linuxmusician01 wrote:But I see a lot of questions here about pretty expensive DAW's that are Windows native. Why not use (dual boot) Windows then? Because producing music with a full blown (semi) professional DAW requires hours of work. So booting, or choosing, an OS especially for that makes sense to me.

Answering from my own point of view, althou not using any windows daw. Only windows software I use is Rocksmith.

My music making session can be sometimes pretty short. I can have spare 30 minutes. That is so short time that booting computer to windows, opening software, opening project, saving it, rebooting to linux and opening softwares I use back would require most of that 30 minutes.

And for expensive software, some softwares have lite-version, which can come together with some midi keyboard or what ever.

Linuxmusician01 wrote:I see people asking "does this and that work in my über-expensive Windows DAW in Linux". My position is that you've already paid company X for that support and now you ask me to do it for free. Or rather: to solve problems that other people get paid for.

* Point 1: don't answer, and don't read if it bothers you. If somebody asks you such things in your own email, point them to come to this forum.
* Point 2: Company which makes software for Windows doesn't know and doesn't support it in Linux, so nobody is paying them for that.
* Point 3: I think it is pretty good idea if windows software works in linux, and we as community support it. It helps linux to get more interesting OS for other music creators. Instead of paying also for Microsoft, paying only for Ableton is ok. And if there starts to be some decent amount of users using product in linux, it has potential getting some support also.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby khz » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:31 pm

Programs written for another operating system run on that operating system. All you can do to get programs to run on a different operating system are hacks and are never as stable/low on performance as on the intended operating system.

Contact the companies that you would like to see run a special program or hardware under Linux.
Ask for Linux support.
Don't expect a macOS/Windows program/hardware to run under Linux. It can run with hacks, but doesn't have to.

You can do magic with the GNU terminal, but Linux is not a miracle operating system.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby raboof » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:31 pm

khz wrote:Programs written for another operating system run on that operating system. All you can do to get programs to run on a different operating system are hacks and are never as stable/low on performance as on the intended operating system.


Agreed

khz wrote:Contact the companies that you would like to see run a special program or hardware under Linux.
Ask for Linux support.


This is indeed helpful, as it helps show them they might have Linux users.

Still, do also ask on this forum, and collaborate with other users to try and make things work or share what works and what doesn't. One thing I love about Linux is you can always often find other people who are interested in certain topics, however crazy they may be, and you can try and figure things out.

It is indeed important, however, to realize that running Windows software on Linux is slightly crazy, and not to expect miracles.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:40 pm

raboof wrote:
Luc wrote:Why did my post get deleted?

The post accused Linuxmusician01 of posting this question in bad faith. That didn't seem appropriate to me. I'm sorry if that moderation decision was too rash.

I would see some point in such accusation.

When thinking realistically, for normal user. How many would be willing to write some company about linux support, because you know answer? 'No, we don't support', so it is waste of time on normal users point of view. Instead, write here, because here you have some possibility to get help. For normal user, 1/10 would even have energy to register on this forum and write question here. Seeing this post, that ratio may drop down. And if you are something else than native english speaker, might drop even more. And post started with nickname which sounds like 'is this admin of forum'.

I would regard realist scenario that we have plenty of linux users using native windows apps in linux. If some big vendor will find out some day that their previous release have been working pretty ok on Linux, and it has 1000 linux users, and new release won't, and therefore those 1000 users are most likely not getting that 150€ upgrade. There you have situation where supporting linux may get somewhat interesting. So stop spitting to users who possibly try to migrate from windows to linux, but like to keep their software. Or even some native linux users might be interested to have software XX without moving to windows.

Advocating linux should be smart, not fanatic.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby folderol » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 am

tavasti wrote:Advocating linux should be smart, not fanatic.

Best comment I've seen on here (or anywhere else come to that!) :D

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:49 pm

folderol wrote:
tavasti wrote:Advocating linux should be smart, not fanatic.

Best comment I've seen on here (or anywhere else come to that!) :D

I don't know what impression I made w/ my post but that's exactly what I'm advocating. The discussion I wanted to start is not one of Linux vs. Windows. I simply wanted to gain an understanding of why people run complicated pieces of Windows software on Linux because I myself avoid that and I don't use Windows either (the occasional app excluded).

So it's not that I'd like people to switch from Linux to Windows or vice versa, I just would like to see a reply of somebody who uses, for example Window's Ableton Live on Linux instead of (Linux native) Ardour or switching to Windows (every now and then).

Again, I'm not interested in an OS war, at all.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:53 pm

Linuxmusician01 wrote:I don't know what impression I made w/ my post but that's exactly what I'm advocating.

Impression what I got from your post is something like "How dare you come to ask me help for using windows programs on linux. Go away and use that in windows, you rich punk". Ok, maybe I overrated it a bit, but still, that was basic idea.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby merlyn » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:08 pm

tavasti wrote:Go away and use that in windows, you rich punk

I have heard rumours that not everyone who uses Windows software has paid for it. :)

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:18 pm

tavasti wrote:
Linuxmusician01 wrote:I don't know what impression I made w/ my post but that's exactly what I'm advocating.

Impression what I got from your post is something like "How dare you come to ask me help for using windows programs on linux. Go away and use that in windows, you rich punk". Ok, maybe I overrated it a bit, but still, that was basic idea.

I apologize if I made such an impression. I'd only like to know why people use Linux sometimes for "heavy" applications like a DAW.

The reason I posted said remark is that the good thing about paying money for something (be it software or a washing machine) is that you've got the right to ask the professionals that made the product for help. Linux and it's software do generally not have that advantage. So forget about that remark. I shouldn't have mentioned it. :)

Let me try to start again on a more positive note: why do y'all use a Windows DAW on Linux?


P.S. @Tavasi: thanks for posting your reason for using Windows software on Linux: your sessions are short like my sessions in MS Word. :)
Last edited by Linuxmusician01 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:26 pm

In fact, I realized, I use windows 'DAW' in linux: mobile DAW Caustic has free of charge windows version. That windows version is not supported on any platform.

I start compositions on mobile, but I may finalize them on linux, using that windows version. Typically doing some final fixes to track, or only exporting stems for final mixin on Mixbus.

And I don't have Windows. Latest windows version I have used more than very rare ocassions is win 3.11
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:34 pm

tavasti wrote:In fact, I realized, I use windows 'DAW' in linux: mobile DAW Caustic has free of charge windows version. That windows version is not supported on any platform.

I start compositions on mobile, but I may finalize them on linux, using that windows version. Typically doing some final fixes to track, or only exporting stems for final mixin on Mixbus.

And I don't have Windows. Latest windows version I have used more than very rare ocassions is win 3.11

Sounds like a good reason to me. :)

I've got Caustic on my mobile too (demo ver.). Can you use it on your mobile to sequence external Midi gear via an USB OTG adapter? I can't seem to find settings for that...

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby tavasti » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:33 pm

Linuxmusician01 wrote:I've got Caustic on my mobile too (demo ver.). Can you use it on your mobile to sequence external Midi gear via an USB OTG adapter? I can't seem to find settings for that...

I don't have such adapter nor any midi gear, and I think Caustic has only midi in.
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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:57 am

For a large application such as a DAW I would tend to agree. Both Bitwig (creation) and Mixbus32C (mixing/mastering) that I'm using are Linux natives.

OTOH, running Windows VSTs in a Linux DAW does not fit into the category of large-scale applications.

Cheers.

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Re: Why run Windows software on Linux?

Postby bhilmers » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 am

Linuxmusician01 wrote:I simply wanted to gain an understanding of why people run complicated pieces of Windows software on Linux...

How do you define "complicated?"

My music/audio workflow is almost entirely Windows binaries in WINE. Why? Because the software is more powerful and the features suit my needs perfectly. I've been looking for FOSS alternatives on Linux since 2010 and still haven't found anything suitable, though BitWig looks like it would be great if I felt like spending the money (I already bought the DAW I use, no need for two). Regarding stability, I have no more problems with Windows binaries than I do with native Linux audio. Even as recently as six months ago I tried out Ardour, LMMS, and Muse, all of which crashed during regular use. Qtractor seems the most stable on my hardware, but it's a little clumsy to use compared to my current tools, and since those tools work fine there is no incentive to switch.

Believe me, if I find a FOSS tool that can replace my current setup I will be annoyingly evangelical about it.


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