Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:03 pm

Hi Michael,

here is how it behaves in renoise

https://vimeo.com/333441712

Until ~1:00 there is no sound going through the plugin. With the Roomverb you also see the white bar bug. If you have questions or need more info, please let me know. The CPU load that you see in Renoise is the same like shown in Cadence.

And here with Reaper:

https://vimeo.com/333446008
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby JamesPeters » Wed May 01, 2019 1:42 am

lilith wrote:Until ~1:00 there is no sound going through the plugin. With the Roomverb you also see the white bar bug. If you have questions or need more info, please let me know. The CPU load that you see in Renoise is the same like shown in Cadence.


During your tests, is your CPU frequency governor set to "performance" (100% CPU frequency)? If not, your CPU readings will be inaccurate; they'll be a percentage of the processing ability of your CPU at which frequency the CPU is currently operating.

I ask this because I don't see such wild differences in CPU as you do, especially when in Reaper our results are very similar when the GUI is closed. (For me the CPU briefly spikes up to 15% when the plugin opens and the graph is being drawn, but it subsides quickly.)

If you've never altered your CPU frequency governor setting for your distro, it's most likely set to a "power saving" mode which allows the CPU to "throttle down" to its lowest possible operating frequency (for mine it's 800 MHz). Some CPUs have multiple possible "steps" of frequency at which they can operate, too. As your computer requires more CPU, it allows the CPU's frequency to be "throttled up" to whatever "step" necessary, but that "step" may be different from one DAW to another (or depending on how many plugins are open)...even though the actual % of CPU (if it were at 100% frequency) might actually be quite similar. The conditions under which the CPU throttles might be a bit different from DAW to DAW since it's trying to "keep ahead of" your need for more CPU, and the threshold for that might change from time to time. Also apparently different distros will set the CPU performance governor differently (some DAW-based distros might set it to a higher "step" by default). So if you don't know which frequency "step" at which your CPU is operating, you won't know what those CPU % readings mean.

I use indicator-cpufreq so that I can change the CPU frequency performance settings from my taskbar.
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby Michael Willis » Wed May 01, 2019 3:56 am

Thanks everybody for testing and reporting your results. I made a slight change that I hope will bring CPU usage closer to what it was like in the 1.1.x releases:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... 1.9.2-beta

I had made some changes to the way the early and late algorithms are initialized; I was trying to simplify the code and I thought that the changes would be inconsequential, but going back to the prior way that it initialized the algorithms seems to make them perform much more efficiently.

Edit: More changes are coming, I'm just trying to go with more rapid releases so that I can get a tighter feedback loop.

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Wed May 01, 2019 2:45 pm

JamesPeters wrote:
lilith wrote:Until ~1:00 there is no sound going through the plugin. With the Roomverb you also see the white bar bug. If you have questions or need more info, please let me know. The CPU load that you see in Renoise is the same like shown in Cadence.


During your tests, is your CPU frequency governor set to "performance" (100% CPU frequency)? If not, your CPU readings will be inaccurate; they'll be a percentage of the processing ability of your CPU at which frequency the CPU is currently operating.

I ask this because I don't see such wild differences in CPU as you do, especially when in Reaper our results are very similar when the GUI is closed. (For me the CPU briefly spikes up to 15% when the plugin opens and the graph is being drawn, but it subsides quickly.)

If you've never altered your CPU frequency governor setting for your distro, it's most likely set to a "power saving" mode which allows the CPU to "throttle down" to its lowest possible operating frequency (for mine it's 800 MHz). Some CPUs have multiple possible "steps" of frequency at which they can operate, too. As your computer requires more CPU, it allows the CPU's frequency to be "throttled up" to whatever "step" necessary, but that "step" may be different from one DAW to another (or depending on how many plugins are open)...even though the actual % of CPU (if it were at 100% frequency) might actually be quite similar. The conditions under which the CPU throttles might be a bit different from DAW to DAW since it's trying to "keep ahead of" your need for more CPU, and the threshold for that might change from time to time. Also apparently different distros will set the CPU performance governor differently (some DAW-based distros might set it to a higher "step" by default). So if you don't know which frequency "step" at which your CPU is operating, you won't know what those CPU % readings mean.

I use indicator-cpufreq so that I can change the CPU frequency performance settings from my taskbar.


My CPU governor is set to performance, but what confuses me a bit is, that the frequencies are not exactly identical:

http://i.imgur.com/Dq8WppL.png

I will test the new Dragonfly version later.

Best
Marco
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby JamesPeters » Wed May 01, 2019 3:06 pm

I will try to remember that your name is Marco, and not Lilith. :)

Yes I have noticed a similar thing about my CPU frequency per core or thread (since my CPU has hyperthreading and it shows as "cores"). I am guessing the exact frequency has a bit of fluctuation within a small tolerance. Your readings are basically the same as mine, so I would assume you have correctly set the governor to Performance.

What is your CPU? The one I am using is in my signature. The fact we are getting such significantly different numbers in Reaper at certain times, I wonder if it's a difference in CPU model.
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Wed May 01, 2019 4:38 pm

In Reaper it is now much better! I hardly see any increase of CPU load with both plugins. Even if the GUI ist open.

In Renoise it's still the old load of:

Dragonfly Room 30%
Dragon Fly Reverb15 %

Here's my system:

Code: Select all

System:    Host: fox Kernel: 4.9.0-9-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit)
           Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
Machine:   Device: desktop Mobo: MSI model: H81M-E34 (MS-7817) v: 3.0
           BIOS: American Megatrends v: V17.5 date: 03/30/2015
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-4460 (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           clock speeds: max: 3400 MHz 1: 3324 MHz 2: 3351 MHz 3: 3340 MHz
           4: 3329 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.Org 1.19.2 drivers: modesetting (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell Desktop
           GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 13.0.6
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-2 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-3 AKAI Professional M.I. LPK25 MIDI Keyboard
           driver: USB Audio
           Card-4 ZOOM driver: USB Audio
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.9.0-9-amd64
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169
           IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full
           mac: d8:cb:8a:e8:e9:99
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (17.1% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: Samsung_SSD_850 size: 250.1GB
           ID-2: USB /dev/sdb model: Portable_SSD_T5 size: 250.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 28G used: 16G (59%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
           ID-2: /home size: 194G used: 43G (23%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 7.99GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0C mobo: 43.0C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 934 fan-1: 767 fan-3: 0 fan-4: 0 fan-5: 0
Info:      Processes: 191 Uptime: 2:04 Memory: 2692.7/7424.6MB
           Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.5
marco@fox:~$
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Wed May 01, 2019 4:40 pm

In Reaper it is now much better! I hardly see any increase of CPU load with both plugins. Even if the GUI ist open.

In Renoise it's still the old load of:

Dragonfly Room 30%
Dragon Fly Reverb15 %

Here's my system:

Code: Select all

System:    Host: fox Kernel: 4.9.0-9-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit)
           Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
Machine:   Device: desktop Mobo: MSI model: H81M-E34 (MS-7817) v: 3.0
           BIOS: American Megatrends v: V17.5 date: 03/30/2015
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-4460 (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           clock speeds: max: 3400 MHz 1: 3324 MHz 2: 3351 MHz 3: 3340 MHz
           4: 3329 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.Org 1.19.2 drivers: modesetting (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell Desktop
           GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 13.0.6
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-2 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-3 AKAI Professional M.I. LPK25 MIDI Keyboard
           driver: USB Audio
           Card-4 ZOOM driver: USB Audio
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.9.0-9-amd64
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169
           IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full
           mac: d8:cb:8a:e8:e9:99
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (17.1% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: Samsung_SSD_850 size: 250.1GB
           ID-2: USB /dev/sdb model: Portable_SSD_T5 size: 250.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 28G used: 16G (59%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
           ID-2: /home size: 194G used: 43G (23%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 7.99GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0C mobo: 43.0C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 934 fan-1: 767 fan-3: 0 fan-4: 0 fan-5: 0
Info:      Processes: 191 Uptime: 2:04 Memory: 2692.7/7424.6MB
           Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.5
marco@fox:~$
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Wed May 01, 2019 4:40 pm

edit
Last edited by lilith on Wed May 01, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby JamesPeters » Wed May 01, 2019 8:17 pm

The fact that you double posted, then quoted yourself? I'd say that doesn't make sense. :wink:

My CPU is more current and has some advantages compared to yours, despite only having 2 cores (instead of your 4 cores). So that would explain the relatively small differences in CPU readings in Reaper, with the current 1.9.2 version of Dragonfly plugins (Linux VST version).

Also my distro uses kernel version 4.19.0-1-amd64 x86_64, so maybe that has some effect. And our mainboards are different, my bios is more current, etc. (Otherwise though our distros are similar with Stretch as the base, and same XFCE version.)

As for how other DAW's CPU readings being higher, I can't comment on that since I don't use other DAWs.

Anyway I just conversed with Michael by private message, and he said he found some optimizations for the code which should further help with CPU usage. It might be worth waiting for his next update before investigating this aspect further.
Last edited by JamesPeters on Wed May 01, 2019 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby Michael Willis » Wed May 01, 2019 8:22 pm

JamesPeters wrote:Anyway I just conversed with Michael by private message, and he said he found some optimizations for the code which should further help with CPU usage. It might be worth waiting for his next update before investigating this aspect further.

Confirmed, to make a long story short the makefiles used to include several compiler optimization flags, but when I moved shared code into the new "common" folder, I failed to keep those compiler optimizations. Hopefully soon I'll have another beta release that puts those optimizations back in.

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby lilith » Wed May 01, 2019 9:54 pm

I always hit "quote" instead of "reply" :mrgreen:
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby Michael Willis » Thu May 02, 2019 4:11 am

lilith wrote:I always hit "quote" instead of "reply" :mrgreen:

:mrgreen:

Yet another beta release, 1.9.3 is now available!

I'm really excited about this one, the performance is significantly better on my machine. Please let me know how it goes.

P.S. I got feedback on another forum that the late reverb in Dragonfly Room is a bit more quiet than Dragonfly Hall. Does anybody here have any opinions on that? I haven't really compared them side-by-side much, since I consider them to have different purposes, but I might add a bit of gain to Dragonfly Room if that is really the case.

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby JamesPeters » Thu May 02, 2019 4:13 am

I just tried it, and it has 300% more CPU.

Just kidding. :D I'll try it a bit later though.
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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby Michael Willis » Thu May 02, 2019 4:16 am

JamesPeters wrote:I just tried it, and it has 300% more CPU.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

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Re: Dragonfly Room Reverb - Testers needed

Postby JamesPeters » Thu May 02, 2019 4:23 am

And by "later" I mean I just tested it (Linux VST in Reaper). :D

CPU is back to the same levels as in 1.1.4, yay! Drawing of the graph is fast too. I'll compare the Windows VST later too (on my Windows laptop) and let you know if I notice anything different.

Yes I noticed that the late reflections of Room are significantly quieter. It didn't bother me, but if others are mentioning it, it might be worth considering doing something about it.
http://petersamplification.com
Core i3-6300 - MSI B150M Mortar - 8 GB RAM - Asus Xonar DX - Linux Mint 19.1 (64-bit) - REAPER for Linux


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