Spicing up existing vocals

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Michael Willis
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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby Michael Willis » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm

JamesPeters wrote:Happy April 1, everybody. :)

Wow, that was elaborate, and I totally fell for it. I still stand by my recommendation of flipping through Rakarrack presets though.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby JamesPeters » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:28 am

Well I'm just assuming at this point. :)

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby zoco » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am

JamesPeters wrote:
zoco wrote:
JamesPeters wrote:It seems as though you want the vocalist to sing the part differently.

No that isn't. They can remain exactly the same. They only could use some 5% more action.


Happy April 1, everybody. :)


Huh? Were is the april's fool joke? I do not get it.

I can try, but i think compressor will only give more gain. Gain is not the same as spice or action. I am looking for a trick to get some more action in that what is sung. But it has to stay the same song in core so the vocals may not sound totally different.
Is it possible to spice it up a litle by slightly adjust the pitch? Or will that become sounding strange?

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby sysrqer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:45 am

zoco wrote:
Huh? Were is the april's fool joke? I do not get it.


As said several times already, your descriptions are very vague and ambiguous to the point that it seems almost like you are trolling.

zoco wrote:I can try, but i think compressor will only give more gain.

You are wrong and I suggest you learn more about compression if you think this is the case.

zoco wrote:Gain is not the same as spice or action.

No one knows what you mean by spice or action.

zoco wrote:I am looking for a trick to get some more action in that what is sung. But it has to stay the same song in core so the vocals may not sound totally different.
Is it possible to spice it up a litle by slightly adjust the pitch? Or will that become sounding strange?

Of course you can, try it. If you are making UK Garage or House then pitching vocals around is normal. Again though, it's not clear what you mean. If you just change the pitch of the whole vocal then it will sound out of tune against the same song. But it depends on what you are doing.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby zoco » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:31 am

sysrqer wrote:
zoco wrote:I can try, but i think compressor will only give more gain.

You are wrong and I suggest you learn more about compression if you think this is the case.

sysrqer wrote:
zoco wrote:Gain is not the same as spice or action.

No one knows what you mean by spice or action.


Just put it in several translation websites and other checks like internet search.
"Spicing up vocals" and "give vocals some more action" are very normal definitions for what i am looking for. Many people on the internet use exact the same words. Perhaps you and those who do not understand should put it in translate to get those definitions understood?

sysrqer wrote:
zoco wrote:Huh? Were is the april's fool joke? I do not get it.


As said several times already, your descriptions are very vague and ambiguous to the point that it seems almost like you are trolling.


It is april 2 already so if you are fooling around you can stop now as april 1 is over.
If you really think so about i would be trolling and if you don't take my question seriously then please do not participate in this topic anymore. I am asking a serious question in common definitions for serious answers and do not like it to be named trolling.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby tavasti » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:48 am

zoco wrote:"Spicing up vocals" and "give vocals some more action" are very normal definitions for what i am looking for. Many people on the internet use exact the same words. Perhaps you and those who do not understand should put it in translate to get those definitions understood?

With google on first one, some meaningfull hits, and they are clear instructions on how to do some specific trick.

For "give vocals some more action" there wasn't any meaningfull hit at least on first pages.

At least I cannot understand accurately what you are looking for.
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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby sysrqer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pm

zoco wrote:It is april 2 already so if you are fooling around you can stop now as april 1 is over.
If you really think so about i would be trolling and if you don't take my question seriously then please do not participate in this topic anymore. I am asking a serious question in common definitions for serious answers and do not like it to be named trolling.


I was just explaining why someone might think this was an April fool's joke. We are trying to help you but the language you use has no specific meaning, when you are asked for clarification you tell us to google and translate it (?), and you give more vague descriptions. No one can give you advice if we don't understand what it is you are asking for. We are fully aware of what 'spicing up' means but it is a very vague term which coud mean anything depending on the context.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby rghvdberg » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:23 pm

As asked before. Post a song which has vocals as you would like them. Vocals with spice and action.
Or post a tutorial which uses non Linux native plugins and maybe somebody can point you in the right direction.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby zoco » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:26 pm

sysrqer wrote:when you are asked for clarification you tell us to google and translate it (?), and you give more vague descriptions.

The definitions i use are very normal and not vaguely at all as it clearly seems all over the internet. And as you and as it seems some others do not understand these normal definitions for which i can not find any others, it could help to go try to understand them and what i am asking for.

sysrqer wrote:No one can give you advice if we don't understand what it is you are asking for. We are fully aware of what 'spicing up' means but it is a very vague term which coud mean anything depending on the context.

And instead of thinking towards your vision of going deeper into "spicing up vocals" beyond compressing to give good answers you say you think i have bad intentions and you suggested it would be trolling? That is almost paranoid thinking. Not my problem.
Eventually it is no bad advice to someone if he does not understand the subject to act with restraint and leave it to people who do understand or at least try to without thinking about trolling.
If you do not get to right answers than simply do not answer. No need to communicate stupid thoughts.

The reason that i do not put up those vocals is simple and also not susceptible to other reasoning. Who wants can think many bad intentions behind that until a total mindfuck, but that is not what is behind it and not to blame me.
From the side of the vocalist i only have strict permission to use it in a song with the instant request not to use or place it all around, and i simply respect that. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is it really that hard to imagine and understand? The difference between vocals sung some more flat and to less emotional, and the same vocals sung with some more south-american party emotions. 5% difference, no more needed.
If it really is then simply do not bother as i will go search for other resources.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby sysrqer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:49 pm

zoco wrote:The definitions i use are very normal and not vaguely at all as it clearly seems all over the internet. And as you and as it seems some others do not understand these normal definitions for which i can not find any others, it could help to go try to understand them and what i am asking for.

I'm a native English speaker, I understand what spicing up means. If everyone else on the internet (except all those on this forum) understands what you are asking then I'm not sure why you are asking in the first place.

zoco wrote:And instead of thinking towards your vision of going deeper into "spicing up vocals" beyond compressing to give good answers you say you think i have bad intentions and you suggested it would be trolling? That is almost paranoid thinking.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort, it was not me who said this might be a joke. I explained to you how this thread seems to everyone else, as I said, we are trying to help you whether you believe that or not. I have also given you a lot of suggestions for some of 'spicing up' that I turn to when needed.

zoco wrote:Eventually it is no bad advice to someone if he does not understands the subject to act with restraint and leave it to people who do understand or at least try to without thinking about trolling.
If you do not get to good answers than simply do not answer. No need for stupid thoughts.

Again, I didn't say you were trolling. I understand the subject (I work with vocals a lot) but I, as well as everyone else here, cannot understand what it is you are trying to achieve. Not sure why you are getting angry, just provide more information or links to what you want.

zoco wrote:The reason that i do not put up those vocals is simple and also not susceptible to other reasoning. Who wants can think many bad intentions behind that until a total mindfuck, but that is not what is behind it and not to blame me.
From the side of the vocalist i only have strict permission to use it in a song with the instant request not to use or place it all around, and i simply respect that. Nothing more, nothing less.

Open a thesaurus and give more detailed description then. Or find a video on youtube that has the spice and action you are looking for.

zoco wrote:Is it really that hard to imagine and understand? The difference between vocals sung some more flat and to less emotional, and the same vocals sung with some more south-american party emotions. 5% difference, no more needed.

See, that wasn't too difficult was it! That seems to be quite a drastic change and without changing pitch in places to produce different intonation then it's going to be difficult to achieve (think about when you say something in monotone and then when you say the same thing excited, the level and pitch changes in different places, and different pitches and lengths of words will evoke different emotions).

Compression can probably do what you need to an extent, use it in parallel and really slam it with a fast attack and high ratio, then blend it in with the original version. The dynamics and gain will remain from the original version but the very compressed version will change the delivery of the vocal slightly. Very subtle delays can also excite vocals a bit.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby zoco » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:07 pm

sysrqer wrote:
zoco wrote:And instead of thinking towards your vision of going deeper into "spicing up vocals" beyond compressing to give good answers you say you think i have bad intentions and you suggested it would be trolling? That is almost paranoid thinking.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort, it was not me who said this might be a joke.


Do not know if you realize it but, i quote "your descriptions are very vague and ambiguous to the point that it seems almost like you are trolling" were your words and no one else’s.

sysrqer wrote:Again, I didn't say you were trolling.

No you did not. I agree. You said "almost trolling". And i say that is "almost paranoid"..
Do not play such stupid word-game please.

sysrqer wrote:I'm a native English speaker, I understand what spicing up means.

If you understand it then why make it this difficult? And if you do not understand the words in context to the question and to music then still i ask you why you think in bad intentions like trolling? This still brings the good advice to be some more restraint. What is your problem?

sysrqer wrote:
zoco wrote:The definitions i use are very normal and not vaguely at all as it clearly seems all over the internet. And as you and as it seems some others do not understand these normal definitions for which i can not find any others, it could help to go try to understand them and what i am asking for.

I'm a native English speaker, I understand what spicing up means. If everyone else on the internet (except all those on this forum) understands what you are asking then I'm not sure why you are asking in the first place.

I thought i was at a right place here to ask, especially as in the regular HR world they have no knowledge about linux plugins. But perhaps i better go ask elsewhere then.

Administration, please close this topic. This is going nowhere.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby tavasti » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:49 pm

zoco wrote:Is it really that hard to imagine and understand? The difference between vocals sung some more flat and to less emotional, and the same vocals sung with some more south-american party emotions. 5% difference, no more needed.
If it really is then simply do not bother as i will go search for other resources.


So you are looking for different vocals althou you insisted that it is ok.

Normal mixing and plugin tricks won't change feeling of vocals. Melodyne with carefull edits such change might be possible. Change of pitch and some vibrato might help.

In general, you might consider your behaviour. Your attitude may lead to situation where nobody really cares to answer your writings anymore.
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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby zoco » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:29 pm

tavasti wrote:So you are looking for different vocals althou you insisted that it is ok.

The vocals indeed are OK for song 1 and it's style. For start are no bad vocals which need to become better. Good enough for song 2.
Could need some more spice for song 2, the new style.

tavasti wrote:Normal mixing and plugin tricks won't change feeling of vocals. Melodyne with carefull edits such change might be possible. Change of pitch and some vibrato might help.

The feeling do not have to change.

tavasti wrote:In general, you might consider your behaviour. Your attitude may lead to situation where nobody really cares to answer your writings anymore.

My attitude? I asked something normal and decent, didn't i? I communicated decent until stupid reactions came, didn't i? I tried to answer the questions as good as possible, didn't i? I used normal words for what i mean, didn't i? When did my so called attitude start, to whom was that pointed at and why?
And if not why is it that some other people still react normal and on topic without such offensive attacking words not taking my question serious as some others think need to do? And why do you think those people still get normal reactions from me?
I am a very simple person. I don't take people serious who do not take me serious. I communicate decent to people who talk decent to me. Nothing more, nothing less. And my heartbeat will not rise one count for that.

This topic still can be shut down if it has to go this direction. I am looking for answers for my questions, not for a fight.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby Death » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Sorry, I've got to agree it is hard to understand what it is you're looking for. There are some terms used in music that're quite clear by this point as they've been used to describe the same thing so much over the years (Warm, Fat, Punchy etc..). But 'spicing up' feels much more subjective to me and everyone else here apparently. But maybe that just depends which music scenes you're in tune with, so it makes more sense to you.

As others have said, giving us some examples would be a good idea. It's ok if you can't show us the vocals you have. Just show us some vocals you like, then we can suggest ways of getting that sound.

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Re: Spicing up existing vocals

Postby ufug » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:14 pm

I agree it is hard to interpret what you want to do, but I understand it is challenging to put subtle concepts like this into words and have everyone understand the same thing. I wish people wouldn't be so easily frustrated by this challenge.

When you talk about the emotion of the delivery, I think you want a more exciting attitude, which means either re-tracking or maybe a different vocalist. Of course people will suggest this, because it's really not something you can change with a plug-in! But you insist this is not this issue, so...

If you just want to add some interest, this is what I do: Make a bus and put some effects on it, and blend it into the original vocal with the send to that bus. This is waaay better and more flexible than adding a plugin directly on the track.

My favorite plugin for doing this to use the Guitarix Tone Bender (or any of brummer's Guitarix pedal plugins). Crank it up to the max. I put a high pass on it to remove most of the low end. Sometimes adding a flanger or a tremolo on there too can be fun. In fact, go nuts with plugins on that bus (party vibe? Maybe you need The Infamous Lush Life!). Then send just a little vocal to that bus.

It adds some "spice" to the vocals, especially if you don't use it the whole way through the song. Just use it on the chorus or any time you are trying to draw interest.

FWIW, I don't think more compression will add more life to the vocals--you could very easily make them sound really lifeless! As little compression as possible on vocals makes them way better in my opinion. You can just edit the gain if there are issues you need to address.


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