Gah....

Unofficial support for the KXStudio Linux distribution and applications.
More info at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/

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millerthegorilla
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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:51 am

Ubuntu Studio Controls is exclusive though, as you can't install cadence side by side it. That was my point.

I am now using Ubuntu Studio, since there are no other decent options as far as I am concerned, as I don't like AV Linux, and I don't currently have the time to safely install gentoo studio (although I shall be getting round to it soon enough).

So, I have been using ubuntu studio, and my heart goes out to the noobs that come to this. For a start alsamixer starts with the principle on board sound card at half volume, and is not connected to the volume control in the panel (although it is on the live cd). Also, when you add a plugin in Carla, it appears so far offscreen that if you didn't look for it (or choose canvas-> autofit), then you wouldn't see it.

Also, turning pulseaudio off, is virtually impossible, for anyone without any real linux know how.

It all feels like deliberate sabotage, although perhaps it is honest mistakes. I can see how some radical anti-communist missionary might attack the open source linux music making software, since it is, when working well, far better than its commercial competitors, and I am sure there are some who don't want open source to work as an initiative, after all that effort they put in to end the commies....

All that said though, and ubuntu studio works ok ish. I just can't get the amount of plugins that one would have with kxstudio, and a lot of the kxstudio plugins rely on specifically compiled libraries, most likely for performance reasons, so I can't just install them. It would be nice to see a project where all linux audio plugins are brought together and supplied as flatpak or similar for the sake of cross platform compatibility.

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CrocoDuck
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Re: Gah....

Postby CrocoDuck » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:28 am

Few comments/ideas I got from reading your latest post.

millerthegorilla wrote:Also, turning pulseaudio off, is virtually impossible, for anyone without any real linux know how.

Yes, the thing constantly spawns back as it has socket activation. I do not think that PulseAudio is a game killer nowadays, though. I have been rolling with it in my system without issues for a number of years now, but I guess mileage might vary.

millerthegorilla wrote:I can see how some radical anti-communist missionary might attack the open source linux music making software

I definitely seen people equating open source to communism, or anti-capitalism. I am afraid those anti-communist missionaries are wasting their time. Although there are ideological aspects behind the Free Software Movement that do belong to the "left side", Open Source is embraced by corporations as a development model to support their capitalist operation. In other words, Open Source fits very well into capitalism and corporatism. To be noted, though, that OSS (Open Source Software) and FLOSS (Free-Libre Open Source Software) are not the same thing. Without entering into details, most corporations like OSS. Just a few examples from the top of my mind:

Amazon GitHub repositories.
TensorFlow was originally developed by Google.
The core of Mac OS is Open Source.
All of these corporations contribute (money, code and binary blobs) directly to the Linux Kernel.

The list might go on forever.

millerthegorilla wrote: I just can't get the amount of plugins that one would have with kxstudio, and a lot of the kxstudio plugins rely on specifically compiled libraries, most likely for performance reasons, so I can't just install them. It would be nice to see a project where all linux audio plugins are brought together and supplied as flatpak or similar for the sake of cross platform compatibility.

As far as I am aware, audio applications and plugins especially cannot quite be distributed through flatpak given how the Linux audio stack works. The PipeWire project aims to solve that (and many other issues). Maybe it will be the future of audio/video stack on Linux... As I stated on other threads, I am not a fan of the flatpak concept, but I can go happily with it as long as:

  • The bundled apps do not create colossal piles of junk in your system as in Mac OS.
  • I can update all of my software with one command. I really cannot be bothered to go and click on 'download' on websites.
  • Distributing apps in that way does not introduce performance compromises for the app itself.

I am not sure about where the current flatpak-like proposals stand on the points above.

That aside, the existence of a single repo of convenient to use apps might be made problematic by:

  • Licensing issues: the licensing policy of the repo might prevent distribution of software with certain licenses (this is why most distro split repos).
  • Stability issues: if software from a source has to be kept stable, then there are certain requirements on test and release cycles. Not all developers can meet requirements of software repositories. This is one of the many reasons why projects like KXStudio exist, rather than developers hosting their packages directly on Ubuntu or Debian repos, for example.
  • Security requirements, quite similar to the point above.
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Browse my AUR packages.
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nikgnomicradio
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Re: Gah....

Postby nikgnomicradio » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:53 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:turning pulseaudio off, is virtually impossible, for anyone without any real linux know how.

For Ubuntu and other distributions using systemd, to stop Pulseaudio for current session:

Code: Select all

systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.socket pulseaudio.service

Replace 'stop' with 'start' to turn it back on without reboot

To stop and disable Pulseaudio permanently, substitute 'disable --now' for 'stop'

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CrocoDuck
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Re: Gah....

Postby CrocoDuck » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:29 am

nikgnomicradio wrote:
millerthegorilla wrote:turning pulseaudio off, is virtually impossible, for anyone without any real linux know how.

For Ubuntu and other distributions using systemd, to stop Pulseaudio for current session:

Code: Select all

systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.socket pulseaudio.service

Replace 'stop' with 'start' to turn it back on without reboot

To stop and disable Pulseaudio permanently, substitute 'disable --now' for 'stop'


Many distros, like Arch, use systemd's socket activation, so PulseAudio will respawn if an application needs it. Respawn might be triggered by the DE too through XDG Autostart. Check this out for more information: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#Running
Check my Linux audio experiments on my SoundCloud.
Browse my AUR packages.
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millerthegorilla
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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:09 am

Thanks for that. I tried the systemd --user commands and to no avail, or rather, it works sometimes.

I've also had to quit using ubuntu studio as it is really unstable, with ardour crashing regularlly. As soon as I can figure out how to rejig the installation script to handle my partitioning layout I'm going to try gentoo studio. The idea of software compiled to my environment specifically, feels like a more stable solution.

I wish KXStudio was still here. I had much better results when it was running. Gah...

Loki Harfagr
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Re: Gah....

Postby Loki Harfagr » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:21 pm

CrocoDuck wrote:
nikgnomicradio wrote:
millerthegorilla wrote:turning pulseaudio off, is virtually impossible, for anyone without any real linux know how.

For Ubuntu and other distributions using systemd, to stop Pulseaudio for current session:

Code: Select all

systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.socket pulseaudio.service

Replace 'stop' with 'start' to turn it back on without reboot

To stop and disable Pulseaudio permanently, substitute 'disable --now' for 'stop'


Many distros, like Arch, use systemd's socket activation, so PulseAudio will respawn if an application needs it. Respawn might be triggered by the DE too through XDG Autostart. Check this out for more information: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#Running


Shouldn't this kind of settings work to enforce a no disturb policy? (not tested recently since in the end I canceled my migration to Arch and kept on using Slackware)

Code: Select all

 grep spawn /etc/pulse/*         
/etc/pulse/client.conf:autospawn = no
/etc/pulse/client.conf:allow-autospawn-for-root = no

millerthegorilla
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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:03 am

The pulseaudio stops with the systemctl --user command above.

However, I am annoyed about ubuntustudio. I doubt that noobs would be able to tolerate it, as there a couple of things that are really cruddy, and difficult for noobs to understand.

The first is that the panel sound control doesn't adjust the alsamixer value, which is constantly set at halfway, leaving audio virtually inaudible.
The second is that when adding new plugins to Carla, they appear so far offscreen that you have to know what is happening or they are lost.
The third is that the kernel has been compiled badly, or some similar fault. I compiled a real time kernel from
https://askubuntu.com/questions/72964/h ... ime-kernel
and the jitter issues and running out of memory issues all disappeared.
I will compile a low-latency kernel at some point and see if it is also better, but I am relatively certain it will be.
It seems that it is difficult to install extra plugins. I would like to see a project that exclusively provides a well maintained list of audio plugins.

Millerthegahrilla....

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Re: Gah....

Postby bluebell » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:35 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:The first is that the panel sound control doesn't adjust the alsamixer value, which is constantly set at halfway, leaving audio virtually inaudible.


That should be fixable. Adjust the volume with alsamixer, then run "sudo alsactl store"
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millerthegorilla
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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:06 am

Thanks for that, I didn't know. However, the problem is that the distro isn't doing it for noobs, who are getting lost because they don't know how to do anything, such as the canvas->autofit in carla to see the new plugin etc.

I've just had a friend of mine stop using linux and return to windows because Ubuntu Studio was causing him difficulty. I think that's a shame, and am really looking forward to the return of the kxstudio distro.

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bluebell
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Re: Gah....

Postby bluebell » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:17 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:such as the canvas->autofit in carla to see the new plugin


Where is that feature?
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merlyn
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Re: Gah....

Postby merlyn » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:31 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:I can see how some radical anti-communist missionary might attack the open source linux music making software, since it is, when working well, far better than its commercial competitors, and I am sure there are some who don't want open source to work as an initiative, after all that effort they put in to end the commies....

This seems a bit paranoid. :D Have you given the Ubuntu Studio devs feedback? I too wonder what is a good approach for newcomers to Linux audio and I was under the impression that Ubuntu Studio was created to cater to new users.

I would think the shortcomings you have found are due to a lack of manpower more than any other factor.

You could volunteer to fix it with newcomers in mind. :)

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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:12 pm

I've been using Linux everyday since 2008, and I first installed it back in the late 90s. I have been programming on and off since the early 80s, so I wouldn't describe myself as a noob.

I have thought about volunteering to help ubuntustudio but I'm short of time as it is at the moment.

My point was not 'paranoid' it was literally stating that noobs wouldn't be able to hear the sound, due to alsamixer being at low volume, with the command alsamixer unknown to noobs who wouldn't know where to look.

The canvas issue with carla is simply that when new plugins are added to the canvas, they appear so far off screen that they can't be seen, and noobs may not reach for the autofit button immediately, quitting in frustration like my friend did. It's odd because they must have forked Carla and deliberately adjusted the values or the size of the canvas, but hey, teething problems.

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Re: Gah....

Postby sysrqer » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:14 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:I've been using Linux everyday since 2008, and I first installed it back in the late 90s. I have been programming on and off since the early 80s, so I wouldn't describe myself as a noob.

I have thought about volunteering to help ubuntustudio but I'm short of time as it is at the moment.

My point was not 'paranoid' it was literally stating that noobs wouldn't be able to hear the sound, due to alsamixer being at low volume, with the command alsamixer unknown to noobs who wouldn't know where to look.

The canvas issue with carla is simply that when new plugins are added to the canvas, they appear so far off screen that they can't be seen, and noobs may not reach for the autofit button immediately, quitting in frustration like my friend did. It's odd because they must have forked Carla and deliberately adjusted the values or the size of the canvas, but hey, teething problems.

I'm sure whatever time you have would be appreciated by the devs.
Alsamixer being low volume sounds like a sensible default to me. If you are experienced with linux then you will know that often alsamixer defaults to being muted so having something audible is a big improvement.

Have you reported the carla issue? I remember this behaviour with carla (outside of ubuntustudio) but it does not do that for me now so I wonder if it has been fixed in carla's code and ubuntustudio has an earlier version. It seems a bit far-fetched to claim that the ubuntustudio devs would deliberately make a change like that.


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