Anyone up for a KXStudio discord server?

[rghvdberg]

I prefer an opensource solution for opensource projects, BUT Discord is very popular and actually quite nice.
So yes!

[tux99]

I find a forum topic a lot more appropriate than some proprietary chat solution.

[tavasti]

There is already an IRC channel, but not everyone likes IRC or actually understands how it works.

Where and what irc channel?

[tux99]

By proprietary I mean not based on open and standard protocols to which you can connect with any client that implements the open standard. IRC and XMPP are examples of open platforms, Whatsapp, Skype and Discord are examples of proprietary platforms.

Any platform that requires you to use their client exclusively is a no go for me as without an open standard and without free choice of clients you cannot fully control your data inside the platform, you can only do what the proprietary client allows you to do with it (and that could change at any point in time without notice).

[rghvdberg]

Well , matrix.org would be my preferred choice, especially if you want full control over the code you're running.

Also bridges to irc.
You could set up a kxstudio room on your server and bridge it to #kxstudio on freenode.

Also has guest accounts. No need to register, just hop in.

Oh and your self hosted server can access all other servers and rooms anywhere on the matrix platform.

Ah well, it has to many cool things to mention.
See for yourself https://matrix.org/

[rghvdberg]

I must mention that you don't really need run your own server, just go to riot.im/app and you can setup rooms, communities etc on the default matrix.org server.

[tux99]

This is true for any cloud-side platform though, that was my point before...
When someone hosts a service for you, that someone else has control over your data - does not matter if the underlying code is open or not.
And even in opensource platforms, they can sometimes drop legacy or random features, there's nothing special about opensource that prevents this from happening. When the service is hosted for you, the host is the one deciding when things get updated.

Even with open protocols, you're also limited to what the open protocol allows - that's an actual reason for a protocol.
Granted, on this case removal of features is a lot less likely.

I am not trying to defend one service in particular here...
I like opensource when it comes to local applications, I can just modify them and run them right away.
For cloud/internet services this is not true anymore. Even if I have the code for it, it's not very useful unless I actually deploy a custom instance myself.

You still don't seem to understand my point.
What runs on the server of a cloud service is completely irrelevant, it can be open or closed source both is fine, what matters with cloud services is that the client is opensource and the communication protocol open and standardized!

As long as the protocol is open and standardized you can do everything the protocol allows (which in case of an open and standardized protocol normally is all you would ever want to do) with your data stored in the cloud service.

A good example would be an cloud based email service, as long as it provides you with IMAP access you have full control over your data stored in the cloud service and free choice of opensource clients.

Cloud services that don't provide you this freedom should be boycotted as your data is not safe there (it's basically held for ransom).

[tux99]

IMHO IRC is just fine. IRC chats can be archived and stored as web pages that can be indexed by search engines too (so that if any good tips or solutions to problems get posted in the chat they can be found by other people in future too), there are bots available for that.

People don't even need a specific client for IRC, there are web clients that can be used with a standard web browser like for example:
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net
https://webchat.freenode.net/

[tatch]

+1 matrix.org, haven't been here in a while but I've been lurking matrix a bit recently

[tux99]

Most users go there, ask something, wait around 5 minutes, see no answer and then just quit.

In that case a forum like this one is the better option for them. Still don't see the reason for some proprietary cloud service.

[Lyberta]

By using proprietary services you give the developers of those services incentive to continue development i. e. you are promoting proprietary software. This has a very negative impact on society and freedom. You shouldn't use those.

[tux99]

If I went to view everything as you say, then I'd have to stop using youtube, twitch, vimeo and other video platforms.

That's a completely unfitting example. These are public web sites usable with any modern browser (including opensource browsers), therefore not proprietary at all but rather based on standard protocols, there is no lock-in, therefore there is no reason to boycott them.

[sysrqer]

I think most people who would otherwise look for support on IRC probably couldn't care less about freedoms and boycotts. In my experience on the kxstudio channel the majority of people asking things were new users, often new to linux, and getting things working was the main concern and they very often did do what falktx describes and leave after a couple of silent minutes. If discord improves in that it would be great.

It also seems a very popular service these days, especially amongst Windows users, so it could mean more people with a casual interest asking questions and engaging which can only be a good thing. I have never used discord and have no idea what it is but my impression of kxstudio is that it aims to make things easier for people rather than being free, and using discord instead of some archaic platform seems to fit that. I fact, being militant about freedom and difficult to use services appears to only benefit experienced users and serves as a barrier for new people, only adding to frustration when all they care about is fixing their system so they can make music.

Do the freedom fighters here even use kxstudio? Simply by the position they hold they should not be so it would be silly for a decision like this to be made by people for whom it has no consequence other than going against their morals.

With all that said, I think package announcements and things like that should still be posted here.

[Lyberta]

That's a completely unfitting example. These are public web sites usable with any modern browser (including opensource browsers), therefore not proprietary at all but rather based on standard protocols, there is no lock-in, therefore there is no reason to boycott them.

They run proprietary javascript in your browser and Richard Stallman explicitly advocates against using those sites. Try visiting them with LibreJS extension installed. My policy with YouTube is that I can tolerate watching videos on those sites (although I have a friend who is more cautious and only watches YouTube videos via youtube-dl) but I never register there or enable cookies for that site. I know, it's unfortunate, I wish YouTube would just disappear but that's the injustice of the world we live in.

[rghvdberg]

... but my impression of kxstudio is that it aims to make things easier for people rather than being free, and using discord instead of some archaic platform seems to fit that ...

my thoughts exactly