KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Official support for the KXStudio Linux distribution and applications.
More info at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/

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lilith
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KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby lilith » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:19 am

I was in the Debian IRC Channel because of a problem with chromium (there was a security update recently, which has a bug) and the guys over there said that my system is screwed after looking at my repos :mrgreen: . Just to be sure that this is actually not the case (?) I'll post the output of

Code: Select all

apt policy
below.

They say there are some problems:

1. One should never use PPAs in Debian
2. I have some redundant repos (??)
3. All have the same priority

And I run the risk that I overwrite my libc6 which will screw my system completely.

Can anyone comment on that please? falkTX?

I'm on Debian 9.4 (stable)

They didn't know what KXStudio is good for, so I hope the panic was not appropriate :mrgreen:

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Paketdateien:
 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     release a=now
 500 http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/repo stable/free i386 Packages
     release o=KXStudio (Extra),a=stable,n=stable,l=KXStudio (Extra),c=free,b=i386
     origin kxstudio.linuxaudio.org
 500 http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/repo stable/free amd64 Packages
     release o=KXStudio (Extra),a=stable,n=stable,l=KXStudio (Extra),c=free,b=amd64
     origin kxstudio.linuxaudio.org
 500 http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/repo gcc5/free i386 Packages
     release o=KXStudio (Extra, GCC5),a=gcc5,n=gcc5,l=KXStudio (Extra, GCC5),c=free,b=i386
     origin kxstudio.linuxaudio.org
 500 http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/repo gcc5/free amd64 Packages
     release o=KXStudio (Extra, GCC5),a=gcc5,n=gcc5,l=KXStudio (Extra, GCC5),c=free,b=amd64
     origin kxstudio.linuxaudio.org
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/kxstudio/ubuntu trusty/main amd64 Packages
     release v=14.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-kxstudio,a=trusty,n=trusty,l=KXStudio,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/apps/ubuntu trusty/main amd64 Packages
     release v=14.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-apps,a=trusty,n=trusty,l=Applications,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/plugins/ubuntu trusty/main amd64 Packages
     release v=14.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-plugins,a=trusty,n=trusty,l=Plugins,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/music/ubuntu trusty/main amd64 Packages
     release v=14.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-music,a=trusty,n=trusty,l=Music,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/libs/ubuntu trusty/main amd64 Packages
     release v=14.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-libs,a=trusty,n=trusty,l=Libraries,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/kxstudio/ubuntu lucid/main i386 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-kxstudio,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=KXStudio,c=main,b=i386
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/kxstudio/ubuntu lucid/main amd64 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-kxstudio,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=KXStudio,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/apps/ubuntu lucid/main i386 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-apps,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Applications,c=main,b=i386
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/apps/ubuntu lucid/main amd64 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-apps,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Applications,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/plugins/ubuntu lucid/main i386 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-plugins,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Plugins,c=main,b=i386
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/plugins/ubuntu lucid/main amd64 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-plugins,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Plugins,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/libs/ubuntu lucid/main i386 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-libs,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Libraries,c=main,b=i386
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/libs/ubuntu lucid/main amd64 Packages
     release v=10.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-libs,a=lucid,n=lucid,l=Libraries,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/kxstudio/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 Packages
     release v=16.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-kxstudio,a=xenial,n=xenial,l=KXStudio,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/gcc5-deps/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 Packages
     release v=16.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-gcc5-deps,a=xenial,n=xenial,l=GCC 5 Deps,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/gcc5/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 Packages
     release v=16.04,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-gcc5,a=xenial,n=xenial,l=GCC 5,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/gcc5/ubuntu wily/main amd64 Packages
     release v=15.10,o=LP-PPA-kxstudio-debian-gcc5,a=wily,n=wily,l=GCC 5,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ppa.launchpad.net
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch-updates/main amd64 Packages
     release o=Debian,a=stable-updates,n=stretch-updates,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ftp.de.debian.org
 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates/non-free amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=non-free,b=amd64
     origin security.debian.org
 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates/contrib amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=contrib,b=amd64
     origin security.debian.org
 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=main,b=amd64
     origin security.debian.org
 500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch/non-free amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=non-free,b=amd64
     origin ftp.de.debian.org
 500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch/contrib amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=contrib,b=amd64
     origin ftp.de.debian.org
 500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin ftp.de.debian.org
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Lyberta
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby Lyberta » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:32 am

I run Debian Testing with KXStudio repos and haven't had any problems with it.

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falkTX
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby falkTX » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:43 am

You are not screwed...the kxstudio repos has an unusual configuration, as I build packages in PPAs, but packages are built in a way that are usable for all debian distros (static libs for no system dependencies and generic enough packaging).
there is always the odd package like wine-rt which does not always work, but you can install alternative versions for those (like wine-staging)

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lilith
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby lilith » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:11 pm

Hi,

thanks a lot for the comments. I remembered that it looks odd and that it's ok like it is. Next time I ask for help and they ask me to post my repos I just delete the KX stuff :mrgreen:

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby finotti » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:08 pm

I think it is a fair warning from the Debian community. They, rightfully so, discourage mixing sources, as it can certainly break your system. It looks particularly worse since some of the KXStudio seem to be Ubuntu repositories, which is not compatible with (pure) Debian. So, it makes the system be completely messed up.

When I started using the KXStudio repositories (with Debian Sid) I was extremely careful and logged every installation and update made with KXStudio. But, after a while I stopped, as I never had a problem, and still haven't had one since. It seems that falkTX knows what he is doing. :-)

So I will echo everyone else here and say don't worry about the KXStudio repositories, but be extremely careful adding repositories which are not official or that you are absolutely sure are safe.

(One recommendation that might be worth, even with KXStudio repositories, is to upgrade/dist-upgrade the system (only Debain official) separately from the other unofficial repositories: disable the non-official, do your update and upgrade/dist-upgrade, test, enable back the unofficial repositories and do another update and upgrade/dist-upgrade. That being said, I myself haven't been doing that...)

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby oddy.o.lynx » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:26 am

I tried Debian with KXStudio repositories and ran into all kinds of headaches.

I gave up and opted for Linux Mint 18.3 w/XFCE and then added the KXrepos as follows:

sudo apt-get install kxstudio-default-settings
sudo apt-get install kxstudio-meta-all

The end result is worth it.

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby khz » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:54 am

A/Any distribution provides support for the original repositories/source.list.
Even for the "conrib non-free" entries, they can no longer provide any guarantee because they may no longer be "open source" and are therefore no longer traceable.
Even if you make a deviation from the documentation of your distribution, you are breaking new ground.
For other repositories, for instance KXStudio, even less. There are too many possibilities.
But that's also the nice thing about Linux, that you can tinker (hack).
You are root.
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:30 pm

I agree w/ the other people here. I hate updating, let alone upgrading. Any and every operating system might break as a consequence of it. I'm a very strong follower of the saying "If it ain't broke don't try to fix it!". This saying, elas, won't do you any good if you wanna stay secure and safe.

Having said that, I've come to understand that Debian in particular can be tricky in combination w/ the all too essential KXStudio repo for music making on Linux. I (still) don't know what "wine-rt" is: I don't have an executable that is called that on my Mint system nor can I find it anywhere in the repo's. And: no Wine, no VST's. And without VST's making music on a computer is no fun. So are you screwed? Depends on your definition of it...

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby Jack Winter » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:23 pm

wine-rt is nothing special. It's just the result of applying a patch that allows windows elevated priority threads to run as sched_fifo threads on linux. So if you don't use windows apps or vsts, then just remove it. No need for it. At the most it will reduce xruns at low latency if using windows stuff in wine.
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby lilith » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:48 pm

Thanks for the replies and interesting discussion! With respect to

Code: Select all

apt-get update
&

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apt-get upgrade
I regularly do it and never really had a bigger problem with it. I also don't deactivate any repos before update / upgrade.

I tried Debian with KXStudio repositories and ran into all kinds of headaches.


What kind of? I have to admit that I got a little less problems with the old KXStudio 14.04 iso than with Debian now. But I think the problem it's just me , not Debian. :mrgreen:

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby Lyberta » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:17 am

Do you guys update from the terminal? I thought most people use Synaptic.

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby lilith » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:48 am

Synaptic seems to automatically update Debian stuff. When I update from the terminal only KX related things are updated, likely cause Debian was already updated in the background.

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby finotti » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:56 pm

Lyberta wrote:Do you guys update from the terminal? I thought most people use Synaptic.


I, myself, only use the command line for package management. Sometimes I do use Synaptic so search and install packages, although rarely, but I find it easier (since I am more used to it) to update/upgrade from the command line. But that's just personal preference.

On the other hand, in some cases it is recommended to upgrade from the command line and with X shutdown (so from a VT), especially when upgrading X or KDE (or whatever WM/desktop environment you use). (Although you hear a lot of people say "I've been doing it for years without problems", I've been bitten by it, so I am more careful now. And maybe it's because I use Debian Unstable, where upgrades are more drastic.)

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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby khz » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:14 pm

lilith wrote:I have to admit that I got a little less problems with the old KXStudio 14.04 iso than with Debian now. But I think the problem it's just me , not Debian. :mrgreen:

Take out the realtime optimizations (uninstall them).
(Or: reinstall the system again, learning factor.)
khz wrote:Test individually and take what works best for you. Everything - amongst other things 100 % RT - does not have to be better.
It is good to go step by step. Then one recognizes the possible problem originator and can undo thereby the last made.
FZ - Does humor belongs in Music?
GNU/LINUX@AUDIO ~ /Wiki $ Howto.Info && GNU/Linux Debian installing >> Linux Audio Workstation LAW
    I don't care about the freedom of speech because I have nothing to say.

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lilith
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Re: KXRepos and Debian - Am I screwed?

Postby lilith » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:16 pm

khz wrote:
lilith wrote:I have to admit that I got a little less problems with the old KXStudio 14.04 iso than with Debian now. But I think the problem it's just me , not Debian. :mrgreen:

Take out the realtime optimizations (uninstall them).
(Or: reinstall the system again, learning factor.)
khz wrote:Test individually and take what works best for you. Everything - amongst other things 100 % RT - does not have to be better.
It is good to go step by step. Then one recognizes the possible problem originator and can undo thereby the last made.


I had some issues with shutdown problems, i.e. it took some time. I'm pretty sure that this was related to hanging applications (Ladish, Pulse Audio). Meanwhile that's fine. When using a RT kernel the system was freezing twice. Since I use the normal kernel it was working for ~8 weeks without problems. Some days ago it freezed again:

Code: Select all

Jul 10 02:14:59 fox dbus-daemon[2450]: Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.Notifications'
Jul 10 02:14:59 fox systemd[2429]: Started XFCE notifications service.
Jul 10 03:05:56 fox pulseaudio[2862]: After module unload, module 'module-null-sink' was still loaded!
Jul 10 03:11:07 fox su[7528]: pam_unix(su:auth): authentication failure; logname=marco uid=1000 euid=0 tty=/dev/tty1 ruser=marco rhost=  user=root
Jul 10 03:11:09 fox su[7528]: pam_authenticate: Authentication failure
Jul 10 03:11:09 fox su[7528]: FAILED su for root by marco
Jul 10 03:11:09 fox su[7528]: - /dev/tty1 marco:root
Jul 10 03:11:15 fox su[7530]: Successful su for root by marco
Jul 10 03:11:15 fox su[7530]: + /dev/tty1 marco:root


Seems to be a problem with pulse audio as far I can see. Not a big issue as I was able to reboot from a second console. I observe how it's developing, it has also a learning effect (reading the journal, testing kernels, etc.) :mrgreen:

I also think about testing the 4.16+94 kernel from the backports (http://jensd.be/818/linux/install-a-new ... tch-stable). Does it make sense or is it worth trying?


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