Studio 13.37 is out!

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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i2productions
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby i2productions » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:37 pm

falkTX wrote:for anyone wondering if this is legit or not... l0wt3ch is actually slowpick too (same person, 2 different nicks).
they are just trying to keep some conversation to draw people's attention to this.


I once accused lowlife, or lowtech, or whatever name he wants to use today of being slowpick and was told by board admins to back off because it probably wasn't true. But there is documented evidence on other message boards of him signing up with multiple tags, logging in through proxy's and doing exactly what u accused him of. In my original investigation of Studio 4 last year I found that it's not a scam in that there is a real product for sale, but you definitely get the sense of being in the presence of a con-artist!

And for those saying not worth the time. I pray that no linux newb falls into the trap of paying for something they could easily get for free elsewhere. 5 years ago I bought a copy of Studio2Go(a no defunct commercial linux distro for audio work) because at the time there weren't any really good tweaked distros that just worked for me the way I wanted, and being a newb at the time, I just couldn't get what I needed. But in this day and age when you have many projects that are actively advancing the linux ecosystem overall, why would you pay a con-artist that's only furthering his own ends and actually giving the community a bad name.

slowpick
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby slowpick » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:54 pm

"Probably" ? :lol: And for the record, the mess at the puppy forum was
instigated by a stupid and disgruntled windoze user, and various admins ineptitude.
That user has gone on to another location at least once, starting more trouble, with similar
divisiveness the result.

The price of Studio 1337, minus the usb stick, is 3 hours minimum wage, for an
integrated media OS, not just shovelware. I have V3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and all work well.

The real con is shouting at linux newbies that 'all will be well', just thrash your brain silly
with each new buntu release, each perfect system update, each mind blowing new kernel,
and then whispering in the shadows, 'oh, that hardware won't work, that software isn't compatible :twisted:

If you think the work is trivial, ask Gmac, Fernando, Lump, Paul Davis, They know.
Then do it better yourself.

i2productions
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby i2productions » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:11 pm

slowpick wrote:The real con is shouting at linux newbies that 'all will be well', just thrash your brain silly
with each new buntu release, each perfect system update, each mind blowing new kernel,
and then whispering in the shadows, 'oh, that hardware won't work, that software isn't compatible :twisted:


I would like to know how the kernel in ANY other system is magicly going to make hardware compatible. The kernel for Studio <insert number here> is more compatible than the one attached to AV Linux, Ubuntu Studio, Tango Studio, etc is?

The only merit I can give this project is that it's the first non-Debian based multimedia distro to come out in recent years with the packages that people want. The only problem is that if people know what they want for packages they're probably versed enough to do it themselves. On the other hand, build a distro on a distro that isn't known for being a multimedia distro, and you've limited the support user base. You only have the one developer of this paid distro to help you out when you want a package that's not as easily installed. Most projects release an ubuntu/debian binary followed by a fedora RPM, then maybe something for Arch AUR. So either you have to be good at compiling from source(not likely if you actually paid for a bunch of free software) or you are stuck to the support of one person rather than a community.

I'm sure a handful of these distros have sold because as P.T. Barnum so elequently put,"There's a sucker born every minute." I just feel bad for the people that buy it that could actually get all of the same packages and more in a widely supported system.

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby Jayguitarman » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:57 pm

:D Hello,
First, let me say, I am not l0wt3ch, nor is slowpick..
This is me:
http://www.theplpd.webs.com/
http://www.okielinux.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayguitarman
I am a Puppy Linux Dev, and a Musician..
I am the creator of the Linux Photo Artists Studio, or P.A.W., the Buddapup series, and MultiPup, amongst many things.. I know full well the effort that goes into this kind of work..

Truth be told, l0wt3ch can come off a bit "abrasive" sometimes, and we have had a row or to in the past..
He can at times be quite arrogant and self righteous, even insulting.. In other words, a normal human being. The one fact I could never deny was the quality of his work.. I`ll be getting back to that.. 8)

I
pray that no linux newb falls into the trap of paying for something they could easily get for free elsewhere.

Good luck with that one.. Statements like that show the lack of knowledge involved..
Have you ever compared Studio 4/1337 side by side with the others? I have..
Do you truly understand how being Puppy based, and hence running in ram, effects this type of software?? Do you grasp the effort to compile ALL of this stuff against its own RT kernel??
(And Yes, it matters...)
To get a running jack on boot? To transfer and sequence between various software and DAW components.. I doubt it.. I do, having done it with PAW for graphics, which is much easier.. How much is time and frustration worth?
Anyone can D/L something from "multiverse", it is the integration that matters..
Good work is good work...
And Studio 13.37 is excellent work..
Use it and then comment...

As for the GPL issue..
Sale is a moot point, ask Stallman.. Or R.H.E.L....
As for providing source, or access to it..
1. Why are Musicians arguing the GPL? Of all people, "building upon the shoulders of giants" should be easy to comprehend..
2. Most GPL software contain "Homepage" links anyhow, and Puppy and Slackware do an good job of building the .doc and .dev files from source, and include enough Man/Doc/Help stuff to suffice for links to source.. So?? Check your own Distro... :roll:

Look, I use it, it works great, and is well worth more than the man is asking..
It is not a scam, and all arguing aside its up to the user if it merits the price..
It does more, with less, than anything else Ive seen..
So can we discuss the software as it applies to creating Music, as it was intended for...???
Funny, I find this on my first visit, but this has been argued relentlessly elsewhere..
So I have to ask..???
This site should concentrate on the Musical aspect of things, or so I assumed when I joined..
Last edited by Jayguitarman on Tue May 01, 2012 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

i2productions
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby i2productions » Tue May 01, 2012 12:14 am

Jayguitarman wrote:First, let me say, I am not l0wt3ch, nor is slowpick..


Certainly still coming off with the same tactics lowtech has used on other boards, signing up to make just this one comment doesn't bode well.

Jayguitarman wrote:Have you ever compared Studio 4/1337 side by side with the others?


No I have not, because I refuse to pay for free software. That being said I used to run a review site dedicated to linux audio distros and tools. When Studio 4 was released I made lowtech the offer of doing a serious review if I was allowed to see a comped copy(cause I'm quite sure I'd only review it and format the partition, but will never know I guess.)

Jayguitarman wrote:Do you truly understand how being Puppy based, and hence running in ram, effects this type of software?? Do you grasp the effort to compile ALL of this stuff against its own RT kernel??


Puppy based, I thought Studio 13.37 was slackware based? And, I've tried several variations of Puppy and it's just never floated my boat IMHO. I find Peppermint OS to be the best low system resource distro out there. As for running in RAM, that's kind of a moot point on any modern system today. But for those that find that they need that extra 1% point of performance go for it, and that being said AV Linux does this for FREE. As for compiling everything that goes into a studio distro, no I have not. Thought about it, and done some basic work with Linux From Scratch and just decided there was little point. I'd rather throw my support behind the distros out there that do all the things you just mentioned and are FREE!

I'm all for diversification of the linux multimedia ecosystem, but ONLY WHEN IT BENEFITS EVERYONE! I wouldn't care if Studio 13.37 is up for sale and it actually filled a need in the ecosystem. But it seems to be a solution in search of a problem. As I've stated in this thread before, 5 years ago I would have paid the asking price and more for a well compiled studio distro. Now that there are several that all fill needs where does this leave a commercial distro? Up until the latest release of Ubuntu Studio 12.04 I was starting to thing the UbuntuStudio project was becoming obsolete as they didn't even include most of the cool stuff the other multimedia distros were. Now they're starting to redefine themselves and I give them props. Every other multimedia distro seems to have a specific thing(s) that it does that none of the others do and caters to the audience that needs them. I am having troubling seeing where Studio<insert stupid number> fits into this by only bringing to the table what other free distros already do?

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby i2productions » Tue May 01, 2012 12:30 am

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77397&sid=759d038742d57f85676242757c2ff8bf

Here's how this exact same announcement is playing out on PuppyForums. It seems the Puppy community thinks about the same as the LinuxMusicians community does...

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GMaq
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby GMaq » Tue May 01, 2012 1:12 am

Hi,

I've tried to sit on my hands, but I can't any longer...

The conduct at this forum shown in this thread and another recent thread is becoming really disappointing to be honest. I don't know lowt3ch and I've never used nor am very likely to use his product for obvious reasons. I can understand brummer's concern regarding the GPL and I both respect brummer's concern and his excellent work on guitarix...

lowt3ech submitted his project to appraisal by those who uphold the GPL and it's statutes and nobody picked up the phone, he then waited 2 weeks before posting in a thread which was already turning quite hostile toward him. Since then things have gone from bad to worse even though there is obviously not any violation or at least no violation that the powers that be find worth pursing legal action about.

So are we adults here or what? What's with the name calling and flimsy accusations etc.? This forum is starting to resemble some junior high kids Facebook! What I've seen here and in the recent Open Octave MIDI thread is completely the kind of thing that a Windows or Mac user is going to read and go "Oh yeah this Linux Audio thing looks really appealing!"

You don't have to read this thread, you certainly don't have to buy the product but lowt3ch is within his rights to market it and as a fellow member here has every right to announce it. Yes he appears cocky, abrasive and confrontational... does that really diminish or change anything about how good Guitarix or KXStudio are? Of course not!!

Having learned what I have over the last 6 years I can TOTALLY understand why charging money up front for hours and hours of hard work is an option that makes sense. $29.99 including a pretty USB Key is not an unreasonable amount to expect for a complete turnkey OS. What's the alternative? Donations? Now there's a great way to get revenue....NOT!!

Like LEET or hate it it's not the only game in town, so what is the big deal really??. There are plenty of alternative choices so I fail to see why everyone's panties are in such a wad.

I say tip of the hat and best of luck to brummer, falktx, linux-in-review, and yes lowt3ch as well!
Last edited by GMaq on Tue May 01, 2012 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby Jayguitarman » Tue May 01, 2012 1:58 am

:x Hello,
Certainly still coming off with the same tactics lowtech has used on other boards, signing up to make just this one comment doesn't bode well.

Yep, that was, as explained, my first post.. Hence the links...
And, a little research will show I have been, until recently, like you, a detractor of l0wt3ch, and even was involved in his banning from our forum, in defense of another member.. That has since changed, and his use of a pseudonym there is his own response to exactly the same abuse I see here... Undoubtedly this is a hot issue.. But better preserved for a forum so minded??
No I have not, because I refuse to pay for free software. That being said I used to run a review site dedicated to linux audio distros and tools. When Studio 4 was released I made lowtech the offer of doing a serious review if I was allowed to see a comped copy(cause I'm quite sure I'd only review it and format the partition, but will never know I guess.)

Funny, as he has provided comps to Puppy members.. perhaps you didnt ask nicely??
But, I have to ask?? How to comment on something you have never tried??
As for running in RAM, that's kind of a moot point on any modern system today.

OK, when did we all get Solid State Drives??? and even their response time cant compare to ram..
As for compiling everything that goes into a studio distro, no I have not. Thought about it, and done some basic work with Linux From Scratch and just decided there was little point. I'd rather throw my support behind the distros out there that do all the things you just mentioned and are FREE!

Show me one that even comes close, or has its programs compiled against an RT kernel, or runs in ram (for us poor non ssd having folks...) Ubuntu Studio?? Please, do some testing.. Your attacks almost seem personally motivated, and could not come from a knowledge of the genre of software involved.. This software has never truly lived before, like it lives in ram.. Yes, I am Puppy-centric, and "Run in Ram as Root" is my thing, and I may be a bit jaded, but results dont lie...
But it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

Well, those of us without a 3ghz 12 core 16gb ram system (with all SSD`s) need a solution that just works...
All aside, this is a Linux Musicians Forum...
And Studio 13.37, (13.37 is the Slackware/Puppy Slacko base for those with feet in mouth) is Linux Musician`s Software... The merits of the GPL and the rest aside, it does work...
You cant argue with results...

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby i2productions » Tue May 01, 2012 2:29 am

Jayguitarman wrote:Yep, that was, as explained, my first post.. Hence the links...
And, a little research will show I have been, until recently, like you, a detractor of l0wt3ch, and even was involved in his banning from our forum, in defense of another member.. That has since changed, and his use of a pseudonym there is his own response to exactly the same abuse I see here... Undoubtedly this is a hot issue.. But better preserved for a forum so minded??


I have actually done some research and i see your body of work and what you have said in other forums, and as long as you are who you say you are then i respect you work and your opinion on the matter. You must understand my caution, as I've done quite a bit of research into lowtech's dealings on a great many forums when he first released Studio 4, and he signs up for bunk accounts just to keep the discussion going. I'm sure Studio<#> is a perfectly fine distro, and anything you use to make music/multimedia, if it works for you then great! The only point I have been trying to make here and I'll drop this thread entire after this is, I don't see where it fits into the ecosystem.

And no, I don't have a SSD, but I do have a pile of RAM. And for pure recording purposes I used AV Linux 5.0 once to record 8-track simultaneous on a 7 year old machine with 1G of RAM. Even for that you don't need an RT kernel. As for mixing, an RT kernel becomes almost totally irrelivant. If I were to put together a pure recording studio and not just a mix studio I would probably go with something like AV Linux because it's the most solid distro I've ever used. But it doesn't have some of the fun features I'd like for the mixing process, and in steps KXStudio. At the end of the day I'm extremely happy with the sound I get in the finished product without all the things like RT and pure running in RAM that some think is absolutely neccesary.

Jayguitarman
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby Jayguitarman » Tue May 01, 2012 3:58 am

:D Hello,
Thank you, and I am glad to see genuine use based critique instead of the knee jerk "sell linux=evil" response..
Really though, running in ram does make a huge difference and with today`s hardware with sometimes 4+gb of ram, the edge is even greater.. Latency is a big issue.. For a novice user, it is an even bigger hurdle.. Everything in this Distro is compiled on the latest kernel, running RT.. That alone is cool..
But my point is that you can import from almost anything on it to any other.. Create a beat with Hydrogen, a setup with many guitar effects, add keys, multi-track vocals, and master/burn it, from one desktop.. The attention to detail is incredible...
It is really an amazingly useful piece of Linux software, and a credit to what Linux can do.. So I have to defend it.. And I have yet to tap a small percentage of its capabilities..
Believe me, I dont want to be l0wt3ch`s defender, but a solid Linux Distro is a thing to be defended, especially when it is based on our beloved Puppy concepts...
So you know, I may be a bit jaded..
I am Puppyluvr... :lol:

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby slowpick » Tue May 01, 2012 4:25 am

i2productions wrote:and that being said AV Linux does this for FREE.

I'd rather throw my support behind the distros out there that do all the things you just mentioned and are FREE!

only bringing to the table what other free distros already do?

Ask any distro developer about the real cost of 'FREE'. Time not spent with spouse, family, and friends,
energy not available for the workplace, a miraculous ratio of downloads compared to
thank-yous, and yes, waking up and finding significant cash donations were only a daydream.

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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby werock » Tue May 01, 2012 7:13 am

l0wt3ch wrote:
Think about it this way: if you called a computer tech to come over to your house, and do an hour of work on your computer, how much would he charge you? Thirty dollars?

Well Studio 13.37 took months of full-time compiling and hacking. All of the programs are compiled against the realtime kernel, even dependencies - no apt-get. Not to mention that the micro-Linux it's based on is fairly specialized and takes a long time to learn how to work with. I have years of experience now at it, and I still had to spend weeks hacking and troubleshooting.



If all the Open Source projects you include in your distribution felt the same way then you would have nothing to sell. How much time do you think all the upstream projects spend compiling and hacking their software?

At least distros like AV Linux forward on some of their donations back to the projects that help make the distribution possible.

Seriously, I don't see why anyone would feel the need to buy a distro of Open Source software when there are free alternatives available. To anyone looking for a distro, I would say grab yourself one of the free distros and make a donation if you like it - that way you'll be supporting both the distro and some of the upstream projects.

I liken this kind of thing with those sellers on ebay who sell CD's of other developers free VSTs that they have collected together.

slowpick
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby slowpick » Tue May 01, 2012 8:43 am

werock wrote:Seriously, I don't see why anyone would feel the need to buy a distro of Open Source software when there are free alternatives available.

For the price of a few coffees and pastries, a flailing windows user
can get a usb stick with a secure OS, with excellent and well youtubed apps,
all in working order. The doorstop ubuntu/fedora/windows manual,
can stay in its rightful place. This is for musicians. :roll: duh :roll:

The linux power user, is not the potential customer base. Musicians with
windows frustrations, extra computers, old computers, or an ear to the winds of change,
those are the potential customers, and $30 is a pittance, just to take a shot.
People throw down $18 for a copy of Linux Format magazine, a few times a year in many cases.
Some even subscribe. Where is the outrage?

And all you profits-are-evil haters, see if you can pry Torvalds fingers off the steering wheel
of his SLK. Think it's faster than lowtechs ride? Just maybe? :lol:

01micko
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby 01micko » Tue May 01, 2012 12:13 pm

Hi everybody,

Why is mac/apple always considered to be the musicians choice? Anyone? ... It's the kernel. It is designed completely different to Linux and Windows.

So what?

Sure, there are RT patches, this and that but does it measure up to the mac? I don't know!

Consider this.. the whole of the Puppy OS is loaded into RAM. provided you have enough. Never mind the kernel!

On conventional Linux distros, grab all the free stuff you want, compile it, optimise it, .. will any of that improve latency? Isn't that what we're after?

You have a system designed as a server/workstation and it's never going to compete. Doesn't matter what you do. If you have a super light system designed to run in RAM you are at least part of the way there. Sure, Puppy is not specifically designed for musicians but Studio 4 to 13.37 has taken the Puppy design and forged to suit.

So.. what is it you want? If you want to pay for someone else's work then do it, or if not, don't, simple.

If it's a breach of this forum's code that someone has promoted their ware here then why the discussion?

01micko, Slacko lead :wink:

slowpick
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Re: Studio 13.37 is out!

Postby slowpick » Tue May 01, 2012 8:19 pm

01micko wrote:Hi everybody,
Why is mac/apple always considered to be the musicians choice?

Mac had an early pro studio foothold, but that is slipping. Logic and Pro-Tools have
adjusted their business models accordingly, to insure survival. As technology limits
the need for expensive studio time, I expect the trend will continue. Only a
handful of musicians are capable of maximizing the soft and hard ware that they own.

As it is , semi-pro, and hobbyist Mac musicians just whine about the lack
of cool new plugins that are released as windows-only, most of which work
in wineasio setups

http://brumboy.hubpages.com/hub/Slacko-Puppy (this has Open Office, in case
someone here needs typical business tools in a small format,
without touching their sacred daw :wink: )


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