SOS I need a ROCK SOLID distro!

[StoneCut]

Yes, I have 11.10 Oneiric (switched to 32-Bit two days ago). That's the right WINE patch, too, sorry for the confusion. I'd appreciate a test package, many thanks

As for 64-Bits - I've given up on that for Linux Pro Audio for now. If you want/need Windows VST(i) support it appears that you need a 32-Bit system anyway (well, at least if you want to have Ardour3 with VST-Support and don't want to mess about with Multilib). I still have issues getting my ardour-3.0-vst build to run (bad EXE format) but at least I could finally build it ...

[GMaq]

Hi,

Regarding Ardour 3 and Windows VST support, the code for Windows VST in Ardour 3 is very different than Ardour 2 and now that LinuxVST support is in there if I understand correctly there is some shared code. I have not been able to build a running Ardour 3 with Windows VST support for several months now and Ardour's IRC is very quiet about it and it is a SUPER-LOW priority for them right now. If there is sufficient user interest in such a thing I would guess they will examine it more closely when Ardour 3 is much closer to it's final release.

Windows VST support is currently only attainable in all it's kludgy dysfunction in Ardour 2 and best served on 32bit. 64bit simply adds to the kludge pile...lol. I have been a ArdourVST user for many years but it will ALWAYS be a hack subject to constant breakage by Wine which doesn't give a flip about Linux pro-audio.

Anyone new to Linux audio or wanting a 'Rock Solid' distro really should (must?) avoid ArdourVST, it was born in a time before LV2 even existed and LinuxVST was a few WindowsVST reheats and that time has long passed with the stellar efforts of many Linux Audio developers. ArdourVST is a fun science experiment but usually manages to reflect very poorly on Ardour and Linux Audio in general.

I understand the 'comfort' of moving into Linux with a known plugin format but unfortunately Windows VST support is at best a curiosity and at it's worst full of hollow promises.

Regarding AV Linux and Cadence I have great admiration for falkTX and his many contributions to enhance the Linux Audio experience. AV Linux doesn't require all of Cadences functionality (ie ladish support) and already uses a2jmidid and patchage so including it would introduce some duplication of functionality, however Carla is very appealing. falktx and I have good and non-competitive communication back and forth so I hope to see what the best fit is when Cadence is stable.

[slowpick]

I hope you can have a giant paella, and time at the beach, to celebrate New Years,
and recharge the batteries

[slowpick]

I understand the 'comfort' of moving into Linux with a known plugin format but unfortunately Windows VST support is at best a curiosity and at it's worst full of hollow promises.

Last night I had Hydrogen, Drumcore, and Kitcore all being played by a hardware sequencer,
3 separate drumkits, so 3 unique drum-samples on each beat, processed both clean, and through Rakarrack, with Rez2 and Synth1 providing muzak, and the lot recorded live with Timemachine.

Drumcore, Kitcore, Rez, and Synth1 vsts were all hosted in Reaper, and Qjackctl routing
is pretty simple. I put hydrogen, Rakarrack and reaper on separate desktops to avoid clutter.

It is almost 2012. The future done got here early There is an ocean of vsts out there that work fine in Reaper, which works fine in most linux/wine installations. The Reaper forum has some useful threads of success stories.

Lots of musicians, especially those with money, are agnostic regarding plugin formats and operating systems, just wanting to maximize use of the computer and audio interface they paid good money for, to play and record enjoyable, or commercially successful music.

I also wish you a giant paella (or your favorite feast) and beach trip. AVLinux is full of
fixes and enhancements that remove the headaches and gotchas most often encountered
by musicians new or experienced, to linux. A massive undertaking, and labor of love, to be sure .

[l0wt3ch]

@ slowpick:

If only there was some kind of Linux distro that came with REAPER by default, and a realtime kernel by default. That ran purely in RAM for the ultimate in speed and performance, and came with all of the necessary plugins and the best open-source software available, all preconfigured and ready-to-go, with minimal knowledge and set-up time required.

That would be so awesome! It would be perfect for professionals and newcomers alike!

But alas, such is only a pipe dream...

Or is it?

[slowpick]

I actually opened a new account, soon to become paypal enabled, and when it is,
I will get Studio4, as it's younger puppies were so well behaved, and never
chewed my newspaper, or slippers, shed only moderate amounts of hair,
and went outside to perform the appropriate chores on win7 and osX

[l0wt3ch]

Check your PM's.

[l0wt3ch]

"Someday". I'm looking forward to it as well, but a native REAPER app for Linux doesn't exist yet.

VST plugins are the industry standard, it's just the way it is. REAPER runs them natively, and this is what you need, or music professionals cannot use your OS exclusively, they will continue to rely on their old OS for native VST support.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but it's like the argument against including proprietary audio codecs. A Linux distro that won't let you play an mp3 is just not good enough for most people, so most distros either include them or allow you to easily install them. Same with Flash, Java, etc.

This is why Studio 4 includes REAPER by default, even though it also comes with many terrific Linux and open-source apps.

[StoneCut]

Woah, what did I kick off ?

@falkTX: Many thanks for the experimental WINE build - I'll have time to properly test things at the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

However, regarding your position on Windost VST(i) support - I disagree. See below.

@Gmaq & falkTX: I understand your position regarding Windows VST(i) under Linux, however, I bought a multitude of plugins over the past 15 years and would really like to keep using some of them since they are the corner stones of "my sound" so to say. And ... doesn't "Other software" include Windows plugins ?

That being said, some Linux synths are awesome (ie. Calf Monosynth or Yoshimi/ZynAddSubFX) - what most of the Linux instruments lack, though, is a more intuitive user interface and/or better patches. That's my opinion at least. So, yeah, I'd like to have the choice to (additionally) load Windows FX and instruments into my Linux DAW if I can.

Regarding AV Linux: I noticed that it probably includes every single Linux audio tweak in the world, which is very cool. I also understand some of the decisions that were made regarding desktop environment, however, I'd personally prefer a system that's also usable for non-musicians (such as my wife) - and the desktop environment is just a bit too basic for me. Yes, I do realize that a full blown DE would probably impact audio performance and hence why you made that decision. I'm just trying to explain why the current AV Linux is just not for me (this might change at any time!).

With that regard slowpick's comments regarding musicians being agnostic about plugin format suits me well. However, Reaper is also not quite my software from the 45 minutes I played with it (does it only support VST?).

I had a look at Studio4 - that's one nice looking audio distro, I must say. I fear, however, that it probably suffers from the same fate as all other official distros: "Interesting" software packages not being installed/distributable due to licensing issues ?! Can anyone (l0wt3ch?) elaborate ?

50 Dollars would be a fair price (for a rock solid audio distro), however the home page seriously lacks details (just as a tip to improve things). It's a bit like buying a pig in a poke, I hope you forgive me for that comment.

[l0wt3ch]

There's links on the main page to "features", "screenshots", and "testimonials" with more information.

[StoneCut]

Well, yes I had a look at all that on the Studio4 site. Here are some of the questions that popped into my head when I visited the site hence why I said that information is scarce:

Which distro is this based on ?
How do I install new packages ?
Which kernel release ?
Are these VST/Wine-enabled packages ?
Any special patches (ie. Wine-RT) ?
How big is the USB stick ? (How much of my own data can I put on it ?)
Is it possible to install the system to harddisk ?
Does the price include shipping (to Germany) ?
Any features unique to Studio4 (synth patches for example) ?
What's the license for this distro ?
And so on ...

This is not meant as critique - I'm just trying to show you what might need improvement on your website (at least for picky people like me).

[slowpick]

linux is not a religion, and it's software is not Holy. Same for all other operating systems. This is a
musicians website by title, and computers, soundcards, guitars, electric midi keyboards, mics, hardware amps yada yada, NONE are linux, and yet are used by all without question. Mysteriously, though, wine (and teh eeeVilll vsts ) always get hailed as the heretics, when they are, like the hardware we all need, fully agnostic tools the musician can use to great effect, 'true linux believer', or not. Suggesting not to use certain tools on vague religious pretense is free speech, which by definition, leaves the notion open to free debate .

Profits from commercial audio software sales inspire and enable more and better softwares, hence the world is filled with more and better music. Still the vast windows freeware community thrives, coding and giving for fun, generosity, or seeding for future harvests, and potential career building. These are the same good motives used by linux software coders. No Holy wars are needed.

JUCE can compile for Mac, Win, and Lin, so no need for border wars either. It's just a bunch
of tools. Coders can use JUCE to good advantage in some cases.
Linux is not a desert island. Isolation hurts it, integration helps it.
The future is the unstoppable juggernaut

Trivia:

jackd is available for osX and windows.
Ardour is for osX and linux
zynaddsubfx has a fine windows vst version and linux versions.

These three pillars of linux audio, are CROSS PLATFORM! Deal with it.

Like the giant canal being dug with shovels instead of machines, to create more jobs,
and the little kid watching the foolishness says,
"give them spoons instead of shovels, if you want even more jobs"

[slowpick]

Woah, what did I kick off ?

If you get l0wt3ch, falk and gmac all communicating in a thread,
only good things will happen. The seeds of unity might be spiny,
but seeds nonetheless.

Imagine a for-profit corporation with such skills...Steinberg shreeks in horror at the thought.

[StoneCut]

@Gmaq: I've finally successfully built Ardour3 with VST support under Ubuntu 11.10 x86. However I can only run it from the build dir (gtk_ardour2) via "ardev". It works fine but since it uses vestige it also won't allow me to move the knobs in NI Maasive Anyway, the build works but the installed software won't. I haven't had time to troubleshoot this issue any further yet.

[Pablo]

Suggesting not to use certain tools on vague religious pretense is free speech, which by definition, leaves the notion open to free debate .

I see your point, yes.

Nonetheless, admiring people out there that enjoys developing sofftware and dares to publish everything they do... Not only do they give us the meal, they show the world how to prepare it. In turn, they use tools whose making is also open sourced.

IIRC, Gmaq was on the verge of giving up Linux some years ago. Falktx is very young and a brilliant student. They are not the only ones, but they are contribting for a better world, and, importantly enough, many of us use their great work.

I still believe in FLOSS and try to use it if possible. If you think that is a religious thing, I am sorry. I don't think so.

Linux is not a desert island. Isolation hurts it, integration helps it.

Indeed!

Anyway, thank you very much linux musicians community! Happy new year!