will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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funkmuscle
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by funkmuscle »

AVlinux is the best deb based, in fact, the best Linux ProAudio OS I've tried as in out of the box.

Awesome OS..
brummer

Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by brummer »

StudioDave wrote:@Louigi - Understood. And I agree, JACK is not what most people would call an application.
Sorry, but I ain't get that point, it's like when you say fluidsynth isn't a application, the application is Qsynth ?
I cant see how you would make music with liunx without involve jack ? I guess most ppl use Qjackctl to connect there applications, so Qjackctl is the application ?, or maybe patchage, but at least the work is done by jack.
Also, effect processors didn't produce any music, same with recorders or editors, so were is the point you like to say, that's not a application in a common sense ?
You can chose from a large list of apps the one you like to use and make it to "your" core application, but at least all come together over jack, that's the point.

Again, sorry for the noise, but indeed, I ain't get it.

regards hermann
StudioDave
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by StudioDave »

brummer wrote:
StudioDave wrote:@Louigi - Understood. And I agree, JACK is not what most people would call an application.
Sorry, but I ain't get that point, it's like when you say fluidsynth isn't a application, the application is Qsynth ?
Read what I said: "JACK is not what MOST people would call an application". I've been using UNIX/Linux long enough to know that definitions get a little fuzzy in this aspect, i.e. is a daemon the same thing as an application ? To long-time UNIX people perhaps it is, but someone coming from Windows or the Mac may not see it so. In those worlds there is almost NO interaction with any level below the applications stack.
I cant see how you would make music with liunx without involve jack ? I guess most ppl use Qjackctl to connect there applications, so Qjackctl is the application ?, or maybe patchage, but at least the work is done by jack.
I made a lot of music with Linux long before there was JACK.

And yes, as I indicated above, MOST users will perceive QJackCtl as the application front-end to the JACK daemon. To them there's a distinction between the application and its engine, so perhaps they would have a hard time understanding that fluidsynth is more than a mere engine and that jackd is more than a background process.
Also, effect processors didn't produce any music, same with recorders or editors, so were is the point you like to say, that's not a application in a common sense ?
I don't think *what* the software does is the determinant here. It's a matter of perception, and to many users things like shared libraries and process daemons aren't in the same stack as Ardour and Guitarix.
You can chose from a large list of apps the one you like to use and make it to "your" core application, but at least all come together over jack, that's the point.
As long as we're talking about pro-audio on Linux, that's true. But it's not true in a larger sense. Many users are happy with the services provided by PulseAudio or the OSS/Linux drivers, they have no particular need for JACK.

HTH,

dp
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Louigi Verona
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by Louigi Verona »

hermann: the talk started about Ardour being the heart of Linux proaudio and ProTools being the heart of Windows proaudio. These are sequencers with which you do the actual work. You would not say that actually C compiler is the heart of linux audio, because without it no programms would exist, right?
JACK is an enabling thing, it is like an environment. It is the fundamental thing for real-time audio applications, but it is not a sequencer. It is a heart from the technical point of view, not a standard from the musical point of view.
So I think this is where the difference goes. A coder notices technical stuff, musicians would notice music tools themselves.
brummer

Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by brummer »

Louigi Verona wrote:the talk started about Ardour being the heart of Linux proaudio
Right, then you countered with Otractor and name it "the heard of Linux Audio". A Sequencer,Recorder or Plugin Standart, can be only "Your Core Application" , but not the heart.
It's jack witch we all use to make professional Music with Linux, no mater witch style. What we hock on it, that's our choice. 8)
thorgal
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by thorgal »

just to add my 2 cents:

Jack provides 2 things:
- a shared library
- an application server

and to please funkmuscle ... look at my "ardour on windows" experience :

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7895 ... dlinux.jpg

enjoy ... hehe ... :twisted:
brummer

Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by brummer »

Hi
(first = is it possible to remove the spammer asdfw34rf)

To come back to the main topic of this thread, let me speak a bit over cross-platform produced source code,
as example guitarix :wink: . We receive a report from a mac user that he have port guitarix to mac, the port requires a zero line change in the source, only a small modification in the wscript is needed to cover the mac specific path's. Truly he get support from us. The same is true for windows here, so when a windows user comes to the Idea to build guitarix for windows, there wouldn't be a great amount of work needed to do that, and we are willing to support that.
That's the way of OpenSource, and it is good this way, I mean OpenSource is a kind of view the world, and not a mater of "the Os I use" and it have nothing to do with "will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows".
The same process works in opposite, if a windows or mac developer release a OpenSource program, we can port it to Linux to make it available for Linux users. Only the amount of OpenSource Projects differ between the Os's and that could lead to the conclusion that we "lose".

regards brummer
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Zen:Core
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by Zen:Core »

Man, I disappear for a while and boy things get heated! :)

Okay, I've read through this whole thing and I just want to give my $.02.

To start: Jack or Ardour as the heart of Linux Audio. Just agree to disagree. It's turning into a pissing contest and no one wins those. I get what Louigi was trying to say by comparing Pro-Tools to Ardour. It's the correct analogy for the purpose of the point. I also get why JACK is seen as the Heart, because when it comes to Audio it's always the first thing we look for. Both are pinnacles of what can be achieved in Linux.

As far as money goes. Okay, if you don't like that someone is working hard and wants something in return then that's you. If you want to work for free then that's you, but really diatribes about "Free" or "Pay". First; Linux as a generality is Free as in Beer, but Open Source is something else and well, a persons right to choose what they want to do with there intellectual property is there decision.

@Louigi- Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not attacking you, but I don't understand why you wouldn't patronize a persons software because they want paid for it. Aren't you the one who made an entire thread about Financing LMMS? I'm really just wanting to understand. Just because you may not prefer the way a person get's compensation for their services, or just because you like this better than that doesn't mean either are more or less worthy of the coin in your pocket. If you don't use it then cool, but don't Demonize someone because of the decisions they've made regarding their work. Again, no offense, but your comments seemed pretty self righteous.

"Our" apps being ported to Windows and Mac is really a quibble of an argument or notion. I didn't program Ardour, so I have no say in what should be focused on. I'm not part of the team so I have no say. It seems true though that if more users from OSwhatever are at least giving feedback then there's more info to go by for the Devs. On the Traverso Forums it seems that the most active of us are Linux guys even though it's ported for Windows and Mac. The whole notion of Free Software or Open Source Software are Free and Open Communities. That's the whole basis of this culture. Will we lose them to Windows or Mac? Who knows, but as long as the code is there then there can always be a fork.

If we're all that worried about it then the least we can do is get involved. I'm a fan of Traverso, so I'm on their Forums giving feedback and helping when I can. As I use other programs more I'll give feedback there more also. I wish more Devs were active here then we could give more credit were it's due and at least some feedback (as we already do).

So, to the Devs on here how about you make it more easily known who you are and what project you're with. Use you're projects logo as you're avatar and link to your project or a place to donate in your signature.
"So give me 5 shots of Whiskey to help kill the misery and the pain. You put me through. Thanks for the good times for they were the best of my life, I spent with you."
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by funkmuscle »

hey Zen:Core, I started this topic but my answer was given by the 3rd or 4th reply but thanx for you version...

My question to you is about Traverso... I've been messing around with the git version... I like it but how do you use the Bus?
You know in Ardour, you use the Bus for effects,sends, inserts, etc... I just figured out how to use it in Qtractor but would love to figure it out in Traverso...

EDIT:

I just found your thread on Taverso
laba170
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Re: will we lose our apps to Mac and Windows eventually??

Post by laba170 »

I'd say it's the general popularity of linux that will have the final say. If people like it, they will develop software for it. And "our apps" is mostly open source, so they cannot really get lost anyway.

Anyway, I think it's great to have primarily linux software available on windows, as I prefer windows. For example the zynaddsubfx vsti performs without a hitch, even with multiple instances. It's also a little ahead in features I think. (unison, midi learn and so on.)


Here's some linux software that I have tested on linux btw.

Hydrogen (Works great. I use it as a metronome.)

Seq24 (Works nicely, but is pretty useless since you can't use vsti's.)

Zynaddsubfx (Works nicely. Standalone and vsti. I used to make patches with the standalone while bored, reboot into linux again at some point and use the patches there.)

Tuxguitar (works nicely)

Linuxsampler (the vsti works fine, but it's a bit unstable)
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