How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Discuss how to promote using FLOSS to make music.

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Jan
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How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

Since I recently read a little bit about making the life easier for someone not familiar with specific complex tasks, in particular Paul Davis' "Reflections on 'Intuitive'", the very good FLOSS manual for ardour and this thread, I thought about easy ways to make life easier for a Linux audio newbie. As mentioned in the discussion on the Ardour site, being "intuitive" is not easy, especially if you have a complex environment like Ardour and accompanying programs.

So I thought what could be an easy way to provide newbies with an easy introduction to the possibilities of audio in Linux without hiding the complexity and therefore possibilities one could have with a good setup.

I think the problem most beginners have is the vast number of different applications, plugins and routing options we all take for granted (and are able to use them), but can really be a barrier for beginners who want to learn what a DAW is and how they could use it.

I wrote just a few quick thoughts in the discussion on the Ardour website, but I think this could help beginners a lot:

What if there was a template which provides everything you will need for an easy start in Ardour? A template that has some tracks opened and ready for recording. One track for vocals, one for bass, one for guitars, one for drums. All equipped with the basic plugins you could and should use for a specific instrument. Maybe there could be a script which opens programs like Hydrogen and/or Jamin and makes the necessary connections in Jack.

While I realise that there is the excellent FLOSS manual for Ardour and countless other documentation for everything you would want to use - and they are necessary -, my experience with musicians tells me that most of them don't want to be bothered with a lengthy read, they want to discover it themselves through playing, they only read manuals when they have a specific problem. And with the Linux audio ecosystem there is a huge barrier and a steep learning curve which prevents that playing, you have to be committed before you even begin recording. Or you give up easily. Forums like this help a lot, but think about the advantages to tell someone who wants to try out recording on Linux: "Just click on this and you have a basic environment good to go - you can learn as you are making music".

What do you think? Is there a "market" for such an idea? Is it technically possible to attempt? Or am I talking nonsense here?
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Chipfryer »

Jan I would think so myself. Daunting isn't the correct terminology, its just plain frustrating especially when you just want to play around with an instrument and record things.

The system as a whole is fantastic, its the adons, the wonderful new things people create each day for us and then there is the installation procedure. I know for a fact Linux would have more users if there were more instructions in laymans talk, i.e.

Do this, then do this and so on.
I have 3 friends itching to try linux Music production but most just use the peripheries without seeing its true potential.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

Thanks, Chipfryer. The problem as I see it lies in the nonexistence of a system where you can just start. Of course there always is a learning curve, but if I take GarageBand as an example, it has what I try to explain. GarageBand has templates - very good templates - with which beginners can work easily and without much knowledge of the technology behind it.

You are right. Everything is there, but it is a big hurdle to discover the ecosystem and get everything you need and want. The big advantage that we have - we all work within this ecosystem and have climbed that hurdle - could be brought to use to create templates and integrate them, so that everyone can quickly get a result. Of course, these results would not be as good as a carefully recorded and mixed session, but it is a start, and that is what most users need, I think.

There are so much possibilities. Why not make Ardour templates for specific styles and recording scenarios? That together with, say, a Hydrogen template with some good beats should be sufficient for an easy start.

The Open Octave project does something similar to what I have in mind, I think, but especially for scoring a it seems. I am not very familiar with the project, but creating scripts/templates, not for very complex tasks like film scores, but for beginners could be a relief: They can just make music without much initial effort, the learning, reading etc. can come later or as you go along.

The steps one has to take if one is interested in making music with Linux are these:

1. Making sure the hardware works in Linux
2. Searching for a distribution
3. Installing the Distribution
4. Deciding on a program as your centerpiece for recording
5. Researching all the little pieces you want to have (plugins etc.), eventually learn to compile them

In Windows and on a Mac, there are fewer steps. The drivers are usually there, you essentially just decide which software you want to use and install it. With the Mac and GarageBand it is even easier.

Windows and OS X have the clear advantage here. So if it would be possible - and it is, I am sure, I just don't know how to do it - to integrate the programs better for the first time user so that he/she can have an easy start, there could be much potential.

I clearly am only speculating here, but I think it is worth to think about making some effort to offer easier starting points. Because once they are hooked, they can and will learn themselves. And it is because of the community that I think an effort like integrated templates could be possible. This would not only show that there is a lot of programming and organizing talent in the community but it could also boost the status of creative talent that exists in the community, but is not as highlighted as I it should be. And last, but this is just a thought wanting to get out, because of all the prejudice about the open source community: It would "humanize" us as a community, which is sadly not apparent all the time if you are buried in all the technical details if you try to get something going.

The advantage the Linux audio ecosystem has is its ability to grow with your knowledge at your own pace. You could begin with some very easy recordings in Ardour and be assured that the power is ther to do much more. You don't have to switch from a beginner program to a pro audio application. It is al there, we just have to make it accessible.

Excuse my rambling here, but while I think the Linux audio ecosystem is wonderful, there are things to improve, I think. So please forgive me my lengthy post and tell me what you think about it.

P. S.: And please excue my english. If you don't understand, I will try to explain it as good as I can.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by autostatic »

Jan wrote:The steps one has to take if one is interested in making music with Linux are these:

1. Making sure the hardware works in Linux
2. Searching for a distribution
3. Installing the Distribution
4. Deciding on a program as your centerpiece for recording
5. Researching all the little pieces you want to have (plugins etc.), eventually learn to compile them
0. Justify for yourself why you want to work with Linux
3a. Configure your system for audio production (unless you chose a distro that does this for you)
Jan wrote:Windows and OS X have the clear advantage here. So if it would be possible - and it is, I am sure, I just don't know how to do it - to integrate the programs better for the first time user so that he/she can have an easy start, there could be much potential.
The basis of Linux audio, and a lot of other aspects of Linux, is that it has a modular approach. If you want to achieve tighter integration to cater to first time users you are actually working against the very basis of Linux audio in my opinion. LMMS is a clear example of this, it tries to be monolithic which sets it a part from the modular approach of a lot of other apps.

I like the idea of templates, but LASH and LADI, don't they offer a similar possibility?
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

AutoStatic, I think the modeular approach is what makes Linux stand out from the rest, and I wouldn't want to change that. But I think providing templates wouldn't hide the modular approach, but make it more visible and understandable, because that's where the intial problem lies, I think.

Imagine a beginner who wants to make a first recording. If he is provided with a file he only has to click on and it would automatically open Ardour with a session including basic tracks with some plugins and Hydrogen connected with some good beats already programmed. Together with a link to a short ""Your first recording" manual they should be fine. And they would have a good overview about the modularity and how music making in Linux generally works. They will work their way from there.

I am not the type for manuals. I always try to see if I can figure it out by playing around. I found this to be very common among musicians. Just to explain why I think that way.

Thanks for pointing out LADI/LASH, I didn't know about it. It seems to be a cool tool to deliver what I have in mind.
...
After seeing the video, I have to say, it looks _very_ cool! Thank you very much!

As I see it now, this is not so much a technical challenge, but a creative one. What does a beginner session need in terms of different programs and what should be delivered as presets?
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by autostatic »

Jan wrote:As I see it now, this is not so much a technical challenge, but a creative one. What does a beginner session need in terms of different programs and what should be delivered as presets?
Very good point to think about and to put in writing. I haven't dug in LASH or LADI myself yet but it might be a nice idea to create some basic templates. Or do those exist already?
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Chipfryer »

Jan what wonderful ideas, others too.
Here's my preference from the standpoint of someone who is still very much learning.

1. Researching all the little pieces you want to have (plugins etc.), eventually learn to compile them
This is pivotal to my thinking. Compiling alone is the single #1 needed skill to obtain the latest and greatest.

2. Making sure the hardware works in Linux
Also and I think akin to the above. It's crucial and will stop many support questions.

3. Deciding on a program as your centerpiece for recording
Absolutely. Many come with other apps that are not really needed such as Video editing. Great for movie/music but not targeted enough.

4. Searching for a distribution
3. Installing the Distribution


Probably could be combined I think? Definitely there should be information based on what works and a simple howto.

** Possibly using an older 'Known to work' Distro that enables the use of older PC's might be a thought too since upgrades always cause problems owing to them moving away from older hardware perhaps?

I don't mind helping out with tutorials if needs be at all. I think from writing them up I'd take more information in too as regards the more involved parts.

Just my ideas of course. Great idea.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

AutoStatic wrote:
Jan wrote:As I see it now, this is not so much a technical challenge, but a creative one. What does a beginner session need in terms of different programs and what should be delivered as presets?
Very good point to think about and to put in writing. I haven't dug in LASH or LADI myself yet but it might be a nice idea to create some basic templates. Or do those exist already?
Thanks for the quick reply, AutoStatic. I will try to write something organized. Maybe I can make the document available for others to add and correct through Google Docs. I will see how I can do this.

As for existing templates: I did search for them, but LASH/LADI based templates don't seem to exist, nor do any Ardour templates, it seems, even though it is not very complex to do in Ardour. The XML files are very straight forward and pretty easy to work out. I will have to have a look into LASH/LADI too, it looks like a very intriguing tool.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

Chipfryer wrote:Jan what wonderful ideas, others too.
Here's my preference from the standpoint of someone who is still very much learning.

1. Researching all the little pieces you want to have (plugins etc.), eventually learn to compile them
This is pivotal to my thinking. Compiling alone is the single #1 needed skill to obtain the latest and greatest.

2. Making sure the hardware works in Linux
Also and I think akin to the above. It's crucial and will stop many support questions.

3. Deciding on a program as your centerpiece for recording
Absolutely. Many come with other apps that are not really needed such as Video editing. Great for movie/music but not targeted enough.

4. Searching for a distribution
3. Installing the Distribution


Probably could be combined I think? Definitely there should be information based on what works and a simple howto.

** Possibly using an older 'Known to work' Distro that enables the use of older PC's might be a thought too since upgrades always cause problems owing to them moving away from older hardware perhaps?

I don't mind helping out with tutorials if needs be at all. I think from writing them up I'd take more information in too as regards the more involved parts.

Just my ideas of course. Great idea.
Thanks, Chipfryer. I think one could do an upfront tutorial explaining the basics, but I think the templates can stand for themselves. I think to squeeze the necessary information could be brought into the templates themselves. Ardour allows Commentaries for each channel strip, so I think the necessary info could be in there.

But as I said above, I will try to come up with a structured text, hopefully in the next two days. I will try to make that document available, so that everyone willing can contribute. I think, I will first have to sort my own thoughts properly. :-)
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

I have written something about my idea, incorporating some thoughts from AudioStatic and Chipfryer. You can read it here. It is a document on Google, you can collaborate with me on this, but I will need your e-mail address so that I can invite you.

The document so far only contains my thoughts on the problem I want to solve with my template idea. It is nowhere near finished, so stay tuned for more.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Chipfryer »

Sure Jan. Write me off list and I'll send you the Email.
I'd prefer to send you directly my cuttings as it were so as not to confuse the issue so you can then add them as needed or not as the case may be?

I see what you mean now about the templates. Yes that would mean just click, click, click which after all is what most people starting need. Also it would be a fab intro into Linux musical mainstream.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Pablo »

Hi! Very good points.

Linux audio is certainly overwhelming. So many choices, ranging from unusable to excellent in every aspect you can think of, including hardware.

In addition, many projects we are already using with similar degrees of successs, distributions, programs, libraries, plugins, hardware drivers... are under neverending development. But is this not the essence of FOSS and GNU/Linux? Although not focused on Linux audio, this article sheds light on the question: Linux is a process not a product. "The development model, rather than the technology is what makes Linux special".

So it is not only the "modular approach" regarding applications, it is ALL modularity and too many free thinking brains for a unique integration that "just works" for all and everything. Of course there are many projects that try to fill the gap, gather the pieces and put things easier. In fact, the "desktop user" is very well served already. However, for Joe the musician who doesn't have patience, doesn't read manuals, doesn't want to know about anything but their music, doesn't care about the ideals of FOSS and the technology behind it and feels inside the unfair but unavoidable FUD... Linux is a loser in their minds.

By the way, LADISH is great to use, when it works. Having it working is not easy though. Not for newbies. I hope distros will merge it soon. When you get there, you can have a "studio" (ladish files are called "studios") with a number of apps that you can launch with one click. Almost all is connected and ready to go in 5 seconds. You can save and load studio presets as if you were saving and loading program presets. And one studio doesn't necessarily mean one computer. The whole idea is fantastic. Nedko rocks, and he is so patient and helpful.

Thank you Jan, I have an idea on the questions of presets, templates and scripts. I will PM you.

Cheers! Pablo
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

Chippy and Pablo, I have sent you an invitation for the document. I'm looking forward for any suggestions, corrections etc., be it in the document, this thread or PM.
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Pablo »

I have changed from this:
However, Pablo wrote about certain difficulties getting it to work properly. If that is the case, it would be counterproductive to use it. But maybe someone with more experience in LASH could shed some light on this.
into this:
LADI Session Handler (ladish) stands for Linux Audio Desktop Integration Session Handler and it is a rewrite of LASH (Linux Audio Session Handler). However, ladish it is not currently distributed by the mainstream distros and getting it to work properly is far from being an easy task for a beginner. To begin with, it needs jack2 (jack versions 1.9.x as opposed to jack1, versions 0.xxx) with dbus support enabled which is something mainstream distros don't currently offer, let alone ladish and LADI tools. (For more information about ladish, see here and here)
ladish depends on applications to a lower extent than LASH did. But still, applications should give at least ladish level 1 in their own codes for a better integration. So ladish is not entirely program independent. Go convince all Linux Audio developers they should give ladish level 1 (which on the other hand, I think it is not difficult to do). Some won't even care about it. Guitarix did a few days ago. Good!

Right now, I see two approaches to the "Linux Beginner Session OOTB" shown in the diagram.

A) A script, kind of (I can miss something):

1. Launch qjackctl,
2. Start the jack server
3. Wait 3 seconds
4. Start zynaddbufx (with a preset already loaded)
5. Wait
6. Start hydrogen, (with a song already loaded)
7. Wait
8. Start ardour (with a template already loaded)
9. Make jack connections

Having OOTB 4. 6. and 8. depends on the programs themselves. Having OOTB the whole script depends on the distribution.

B) ladish, with a studio already loaded, which includes programs with loaded presets and templates.
Ladish is under development. it was introduced in linuxmusicians, not long ago.

By the way, ardour, although perfectly usable for the bedroom studio, is not oriented to this kind of "studio". Maybe the "Linux Beginner Session" should point towards qtractor, or Rosegarde or Muse, or... or... This remark is an example of how difficult is to guess the needs of a beginner. Beginner in what? In Linux, in hard disk recording, in music? There are so many applications and so many beginners in so many fields and tasks... Aren't we guessing too much and missing the point of what FOSS and GNU/Linux implies?

In fact, Musix, since years ago, had this approach. (Maybe other distros too). It had (and I bet it has) script launchers that would start, for example, qjackctl, qsynth and Rosegarden, if I remember correctly.

Already MANY people who hangs out here are doing a lot in different fields. However, there is a lack of presets and templates. Should we tell them "your program is incomplete because it doesn't have presets"? Or should we give them presets for their programs?

Take Rakarrack, it has excellent presets, many of them made by people who (I guess) have no idea of programming but they are fine guitar players. Rakarrack is good for newbies but ubuntustudio doesn't have rakarrack. Linux paradoxes.

As for packagers and distros, Studio32 has done a huge work trying to motivate musicians to get into debian packaging, to make things easier. But the truth is that making music with the computer is very time consuming. For me, learn how to package, let alone how to program is just unthinkable. I just know how to compile and I don't even like it (I do it because I like to try bleeding edge programs so I have no alternative). Some others are doing a huge work in packaging and maintaining distros. There are many more who are helping and have been helping since years in one way or another.

This board and some blogs are another example of trying to make things easier for all of us, including beginners.

But nothing seems enough for the first time user who is used to the Windows way, which cares about sells not education. However, I agree that some of these "Linux Beginner Sessions" would be the icing on the cake.

In my opinion, what we can do as users, not programmers or packagers or distro maintainers, is supporting the efforts towards a better Linux Audio Desktop Integration. And this is not only ladish, this is ardour templates, hydrogen songs, guitarix presets, little scripts that make things easier....

I think there is a thing we can do: put these templates, presets, scripts, ladish studios and "quick instructions to get going" somewhere in an organized way, all of this published under a free license (if presets, templates and scripts need a license at all) so that we help ourselves and with time, effort and luck, we can push them upstream and get the developers to offer their programs with our (or their own) templates and presets, and distro maintainers can get our scripts and/or ladish studios. Then there will be something like the "Linux Beginner Session".

As pointed out above, others with more knowledge are doing a fantastic work developing and packaging. I am sure this year will be a great year for Linux Audio, but apart from what I have said above, we plain users can't do nothing but test, motivate developers and packagers and... just wait.

Regards, Pablo
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Re: How to make the life of Linux audio newbies easier

Post by Jan »

Wow, that's a long post, Pablo! :-)

It seems to be more of a technical challenge than I thought. If I understand you correctly, the suggested script (1.) depends on the distros, which are different with the packges they use and what structure they have in general.

Of course you are right that we should think about who we cater to. I think there are use cases, where you have a script oriented towards the songwriter with a guitar and a mic at home, where another script could be more synth oriented.

But I see your point with making presets and templates available first. IIRC you are proposing a two stage approach:

Stage 1 would be "collecting" presets, templates etc. in one place where everyone can decide what to use. There can be little tutorials on how to use the presets etc. - maybe even linking to other files that are useful with it (just my initial thought) - and with time we come to

Stage 2, where developers can be motivated through the mass of presets and templates to incorporate things like LADISH into their programs/distros, which would make something like my proposed integrated session file possible.

So you propose to go to Stage 1 first, before thinking about Stage 2, in other words: Stage 2 would require Stage 1, am I right?

Nice idea, actually. Of course that would require webspace with a reasonable amount of space and traffic to host these files. It would also require a CMS which can be used for that purpose, along with a nicely designed interface. Last, but not least, a good amount of PR to get to a critical mass of contributing users.
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