Releasing the "source code" of music

Discuss how to promote using FLOSS to make music.

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wolftune
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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby wolftune » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:52 am

I'm not going to keep engaging in this conversation that isn't going anywhere useful. In a different context, maybe things would go better.

There's a lot of everyone here on all sides refusing to take the suggestions to avoid the personal ad hominem crap.

The issues here aren't about judging people as greedy or not or getting upset about people in a personal way. The issues are more complex and are about how we can (or fail to) cooperate in actions that are best for everyone. All the stuff that makes it personal is misguided and some of the posters here don't seem interested in getting beyond that to discussing the actual issues.
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Lyberta
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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby Lyberta » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:56 pm

42low wrote:The issues are complex because in general society/mankind (not people) is greedy.


But people can learn. We've gone past slavery, we've gone past monarchy. We're going to same-sex marriage. We will go past copyright.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby Lyberta » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:21 pm

If a world around you is shit, it's not an excuse to be shit. Have your own morals. Don't be manipulated.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby Lyberta » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:00 am

42low wrote:Believe me. I've fought my fights in life. You won't beat the system. Eventually it will crush you.


Then I will kill myself. I will not do what system wants me to do.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:13 am

42low wrote: Believe me. I've fought my fights in life. You won't beat the system. Eventually it will crush you.


So why fight ? Not fighting does not mean giving up. Not going against the 'force' means a wiser approach. The 'force' can be too great and defeat can be expected because one is not strong enough. By not going squarely against the force one can have more flexibility and a chance to overcome the threat. This is from my Chinese martial arts training and it applies to really anything in life. The belief that when one is not fighting squarely at the 'force' is a looser is completly wrong and is installed by the threathining force. Believing it means accepting the threath conditions. And the funny thing is that it works. It also means taking the ego aside. The threath is attacking the ego, it relies on the ego to act like a monkey.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby tramp » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:40 am

Releasing the "source code" isn't about Fish&Chips and not about Free Beer. It's about sharing knowledge.
Independent of, if you like the system in witch you life, or not, sharing knowledge is the base of the Society.
You'll send your childes to school, that they could learn all the knowledge witch was developed in the past, and was, ta, ta,ta,taaa : shared.

This apply to the "source code" of music as well. If you are lucky, maybe, your "source code" of music will apply in the next school book for the childes of your childes. :wink:
On the road again.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby barbouze » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:43 am

I don't express myself a lot in philosophical threads like this one as this generally ends with each one camping on its own position after a lot of swearing, seat and tears but for once I want to add my little cent in the form of an allegory used in various religions (I personally got it from reading Buddhist tales)

The allegory of the long spoons is a parable that shows the difference between heaven and hell by means of people forced to eat with long spoons.In hell the people are unable to lift food to their mouths using such unwieldy cutlery, and are starving. In heaven, the diners feed one another across the table and are sated. The story can encourage people to be kind to each other.

AndersBiork
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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby AndersBiork » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:57 pm

I believe there is a difference between viewing sharing as sharing and sharing as trading. The latter is in my view more like.... wait for it.... trading. :wink:
My mother tongue is swedish. Running KXstudio on Xubuntu 18.04. No wine. But beer.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:56 pm

42low wrote:
jonetsu wrote:So why fight ?

I had to. Because a big opponent was trying to crush me in all ways.
Only went on my knees when there was a draw situation within i could hold position to.
It wasn't me daring that force. That force was after me.


I wasn't perhaps clear. Fight there is, but not squarely straight at the force. Not squarely opposing it. Works with the "system", works with an opponent, works actually with everything in this world and maybe out of this world. 8) Works in music too !

I find it can be hard to explain. First thing is to move out of the way, step aside. This is the first ego lesson. The ego wants to go squarely against. The system wants you to wrry about itself ? Step aside. A guy comes on with a punch, step aside. A guy holds you, then melt. It's an incredible feeling. I was holding one of the teachers, I did not want him to go away, I wanted to throw him on the floor. And then he simply 'melts' in my arms as if water. Totally weird. And of course, there is a second part to this. While I am totally surprised by this water I discover too late, in that second or so, that this 'water' has actually moved on my side and is now projecting a lot of its weight to dislocate my shoulder. Of course, my shoulder was not dislocated but I certainly could feel the full body force, with the inertia gained from the movement, going for it.

That sounds complicated but it happens so fast that it's actually simple. The simplest, the better. But needs a lot of training. This is not something to have for basic cops and soldier training because it takes way to much time to train, and also influences the way of life and the view on life, and health. The system wants you to be afraid ? First, step aside. Get out of the way. No-one will ever win by staying in the way. Or if someones win, it will have taken a lot of energy. It's inside the head. There's a fun exercice, works most of the time: extend one arm straight forward. Ask someone to put one hand underneath the forearm and one hand over the arm and try to bend your arm. Now you must resist the bending with all your muscles, all your force. One will fail to resist. Now try again but this time do not use any force. Instead, imagine that yhe tio of your extended arm is beaming across he room, that your whole arm is involved in sending these rays across the room, believe it firmly and do not use any muscles. When ou got it, ask the friend to try to bend your arm again. Do not resist, make as if he wasn't there and concentrate on emitting the ray across the room. He should not be able to bend your arm. It's a fun exercice that shows the power of the mind.

The principle is not to be rigid. When one is rigid, one offers a full solid block to the opponent and if he's strong enough he will break that block. Same with feelings and thoughts. If the 'system' wants one to be afraid, then one will make their feelings and thoughts solid, one will identify a lot with them thus offering a solid mass to be broken. We usually become what we fight because we involve so much of ourselves. So it's a good thing not to become it.

Well, this was a long text, hope not too boring ! :?

[quote="42low"]Chinese martial arts training? Fun. I've had martial arts training too and live the balanced life also.
Although, i like the Chan version the shaolin practice most, and that one i live. :wink:

What I do is rather part of what is called neidan, internal martial arts.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby Lyberta » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:18 am

42low wrote:But practice learned me that i can give away my knowledge that much that at the end i don't even receive 5% back of what i gave.


You have centuries of music sheets, you have a fully free operating system with millions of lines of code. You have tons of music software. You have thousands of man-years of work given to you. You can't give thousands of man-years back.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:16 am

42low wrote:Chan is a life filosophic Buddhist stream. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan_Buddhism


Is was wondering what your Chan shaolin was ... Jackie Chan shaolin ? :)

42low wrote:Their nice too


It's not the same. It is not possible to compare wholistic martial arts with philosophy.

42low wrote: .......... until it's time to not be nice. :mrgreen:


And it is when one becomes stiff and full of anger and is easier to terminate because of that, as I explained above.

At the base it is yin and yang, earth and heaven. It permeates everything, everywhere. Life, health, defense, anything.

You become what you fight. So do not become what you fight.

Maybe not Jackie Chan ... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O9o4CKTGzQ

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:49 pm

42low wrote:
jonetsu wrote:It's not the same. It is not possible to compare wholistic martial arts with philosophy.

In this case it is. The shaolin mainly are friendly buddhists. But because they were attacked so much which put them out off balance each time, they've learned to defend theirselfs when neccesairy. And that they did very well.


Buddhism books do not have martial arts sections, this is clear.

At the "beginning", as the story goes, when Damo (Bodhidharma), from India, exited his cave in China near the Shaolin monastery, he came up with 易筋經 yijinjing when seeing how bad the state of the monks was. yijinjing a series of exercices based on the qigong principles whose drawings were found at the famous 馬王堆 mawangdui historic findings. I still do these exercises as they are neat, especially when done with full body awareness gained from other neidan practices.

The origins of the shaolin kungfu are not so clear although it surely comes from India. What was done basically in China is a simplification of the knowledge from India which enabled more people to use. Instead of nine chakras for instance, there were only 3 dantian. The acupuncture meridians were also developed. 站桩 zhanzhuang, which I do, was used instead of sitting meditation.

Buddhism is buddhism. Kungfu is kungfu. Shaolin kungfu is done by people who follow buddhism.

jonetsu wrote:And it is when one becomes stiff and full of anger and is easier to terminate because of that, as I explained above.


42low wrote: The trick is to control the anger so you stay in balance.


So then there's no time to be mean like you wrote, if one controls his anger. This is what I wrote for many lines now. You become what you fight. So do not become what you fight. Be like water.

jonetsu wrote:At the base it is yin and yang, earth and heaven. It permeates everything, everywhere. Life, health, defense, anything.
You become what you fight. So do not become what you fight.


42low wrote:In base yin yang is much more than only earth and heaven. It's the always floating balance between everything, with the slight unbalanced parts withing.


I try to remain simple. But if I may add some details.... It is not really a full balance, it's an interaction. The difference is important. If it was balance only, then one would expect ䷿ 未濟 to be total balance since all yin and yang entertwines perfectly. But it is not. It is rather ䷊ 泰and even not ䷋ 否 because in ䷊ is the tendency of heaven to go up towards the earth above and the earth to go down towards heaven below. This creates good interaction, thus peace. In ䷋ the earth is below and heaven is above, so it is stagnation.

42low wrote:And there's no balance if you get kicked and don't kick back, and that is not good for your mind.


This is the ego. The ego is a waste of energy when fighting. Or when doing other things. When someone throws a punch or worse, a kick (worse because a kick is so vulnerable) it is actually a gift. The person offers himself to you. Because once the person throws it, he cannot change in the course. And when one considers the effort people put into a punch, you can see it coming, the gift, from kilometers away.

What's interesting and what I practice slowly and carefully, is what's called the 1-inch punch. I received many on the shoulders as part of practice. When this kind of punch is aimed straight at the heart, there's a very good chance to provoke a spasm in the heart. This is why it's a good defense. Whether the attacker deals with the spasm or not one thing is certain: for several seconds you can do anything to terminate the threath. And there's no need to draw the arm behind to throw a punch as in fact the hands can be right in front of you as if you say "please do not hurt, stop it now" when in fact you are about to throw a punch straight to the attacker's heart.

And again, this technique relies on notions of heaven and earth in the body, of letting go the ego, of flowing. When one steps aside himself, everything works better.

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:00 pm

42low wrote:Yes really. It's that old!


When do you think Damo (Bodhidharma) that I wrote about lived ?

42low wrote:Detail: Zen Buddhism = Chan Buddhism.


It is not. Buddhism has moved to Japan around the Tang dynasty, thus the Japanese adopted the hanzi characters at the same time. Chan buddhism has then morphed into Zen buddhism which has its own peculiarities not found in China. Come on. Even in China/India, there are many types of buddhism.

Zen has no martial arts. Zen is beneficiary for martial arts, but Zen has no martial arts techniques. Why do you think I mentioned zhan zhuang ? Do you know what I talk about and if not, do you take a few minutes to look it up ?

jonetsu wrote:This is the ego. The ego is a waste of energy when fighting. Or when doing other things. When someone throws a punch or worse, a kick (worse because a kick is so vulnerable) it is actually a gift. The person offers himself to you. Because once the person throws it, he cannot change in the course. And when one considers the effort people put into a punch, you can see it coming, the gift, from kilometers away.


42low wrote:Wushu thinks different about it. It costs negative energy if you get punched or kicked down, and that puts your yin yang out of healty balance. And then there are martial arts that don't need energy at all because the use the attacking energy they see comming. :wink: (aikido for instance) It's another approach, but still based on and to justify within the Chan school and Buddhism (for 1500 years now).


Aikido also comes from China. Morei Ueshiba spent time in China. We know about that.

武術 wushu came along relatively recently during the Qing dynasty and starting to be popularized in 1949. They have sparring 散打 which means they do fake combats. It is much influenced by the communist restriction on the dangerous aspects of martial arts, following for instance the Boxer rebellion when the English-lead coalition tried to force China to consume opium. A crackdown on martial arts happened, removing much of the lethal aspects and presenting it as a sport instead. If not a dance.

Again, buddhism nor zen has martial arts. You will not find howto fight in buddhist texts or zen texts. They are like zhan zhuang 站桩 in relation to martial art. It is about awareness at all levels (amongst other things), which then can be useful in martial applications. For instance, a lot of 站桩 practice unifies the fascia of the body, making it easier for whole body power and making it easier to respond quickly and sharply to a slight movement of the shoulder when the opponent is starting to try to attack you. You know the saying:

You do not move, I do not move.
You start to move, I move first.

Why ? Because listening is timing. And this is why the underlying practices of what is discussed here are related to the pulsations of music. It's all waves and energies in the end. :)

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby jonetsu » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:24 am

42low wrote:It indeed looks like you know much about Buddhisme, but it seems a lot that you've never heard from Shoalin and Wushu.
I've explained the Buddhist part, and the relation with martial arts. I assume it is clear now. So that discussion is ready i think.


I think you have missed the two parts in this thread where I mention Damo (Bodhidharma) getting out of his cave near the shaolin temple and showing the monks yijinjing 易筋經. At that time the monks did not have any kungfu. I wrote that, so I know at what time Damo lived, isn't it. Do you ?

We recite a chapter of the dao de ching at the end of each lesson. Much of the inspiration for the art is taoist. But there's no course on martial arts in taoists texts. Same with buddhism and zen. There are complimentary and inspirational to the practice but the practice itelf is something else.

武術 wushu simply stands for the all the types of Chinese martial arts. 武 : military 術 : art. It also stands for the martial art full contact sport since recent times (1949).

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Re: Releasing the "source code" of music

Postby Lyberta » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:51 am

42low wrote:And still i'm not going to benefit the greedy people.


You can use copyleft to block them.


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