Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

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dufflespank
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Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by dufflespank »

I have been playing with getting my Pro 40 running in Ubuntu using jack. My specific use case is multi-track recording into reaper (I'm sure most people here know this, but there is a native reaper build for linux now). I wanted to contribute a few notes to anyone out there who might be trying to do the same as me (or possibly using a related Saffire interface).

1) Currently, there is a kernel module called snd_dice that comes with the linux kernel, and is integrated into alsa. This module is a driver for the DICE chip in the Saffire series interfaces. Because this driver comes stock with the kernel, it is possible to plug n play the Pro 40 (assuming your kernel version is high enough, mine is currently 4.4.0). HOWEVER snd_dice has limitations. First of all, when using jack with the alsa backend (which uses the snd_dice driver), the interface can only be opened with two specific settings of the buffer size (256/3 and 256/2 in my case). Anything else, and jack won't start. Secondly, the snd_dice driver cannot access the ADAT inputs. It will only provide access to the analog line ins + SPDIF ins.

2) To get around these issues, you need to use the ffado driver instead of snd_dice. I am achieving this by selecting "firewire" as the jack backend, which only works after you do "sudo apt install jackd2-firewire". This allows many other choices of buffer size, and provides access to the ADAT inputs for recording (I haven't tried sending audio to the ADAT outs, but I'm guessing it works). HOWEVER one issue that arises is that the ffado and snd_dice drivers do not play nice with eachother. I could not get jack to start with the "firewire" backend until I blacklisted the snd_dice module. Do this by appending the line "blacklist snd_dice" to the end of the correct file in /lib/modprobe.d (the correct file will be the one corresponding to your kernel, which in turn can be determined by running "uname -r").

3) Lastly, I spent some time chasing down xruns. Adding myself to the "audio" group and running jack in realtime gave fewer xruns than non-realtime mode, but still I would get an xrun once every 20 minutes or so. I then installed a low latency kernel by doing "sudo apt install linux-lowlatency" (and of course updating grub), and now I don't see xruns anymore. FYI my CPU is a 3.2 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon (plenty of CPU).

Hope this helps someone out there
dufflespank
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by dufflespank »

To add one more thing: ffado-mixer is a neat utility that tries to provide the same functionality as the Saffire MixControl software from Focusrite. I found that it sort of works, with the major issue that it doesn't appear to have an option for saving the settings to the flash in the Pro 40. However, it did seem that sometimes the setting would save randomly, but other times not. As a workaround, I am now dual booting windows 10 (yuck) in order to use MixControl. I'm noticing that beyond just being able to save and load to the Pro 40 flash memory, there are definitely more options available to tweak in MixControl than in ffado-mixer.
babag
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by babag »

thanks so much for these tips! i have almost the same situation and this has gotten everything up and running. have yet to test thoroughly but seems fine so far.

thanks again,
BabaG
Frank Carvalho
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by Frank Carvalho »

My friend has a Sapphire Pro 40, so this is useful information. Thanks!
Vox, Selmer, Yamaha and Leslie amplifiers. Rickenbacker, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Segovia, Yamaha and Fender guitars. Hammond, Moog, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Crumar, Ensoniq and Mellotron keyboards. Xubuntu+KXStudio recording setup.
Frank Carvalho
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by Frank Carvalho »

I tested my friends FSP 40 today using the tweaks above. It works prefectly when running at 48kHz. I can use a buffer size of 64 samples, and run with a latency of 1.3 ms for tracking. Playback works perfectly.

However, I have problems getting things to work at 96kHz. I can get jackd to start, buffer size 128, and it presents all the firefire ins and outs as it should. Connecting Ardour appears to work, as it is able to see input and record input, showing waveforms etc. But there is no playback sound. The connections are correct, there are output levels at Ardours master out, and master out is connected to the firewire out channels. But no sound.
I tried playing back a file directly to the firewire output with Audacity, and still nothing.
I have compared the setup to the 48kHz project, and all is identical, except the 48kHz still plays back correctly.
I have tried to increase buffer size in JACK, and still no playback sound.
I also had a look at the settings in the ffado-mixer, and they are identical too, apart from the sample rate.
Then I tried to loop a short piece of sound for a while, and in Ardour I can see that the cursor sometimes stops and moves in short skips, as if the transport doesn't work correctly all the time. When this happens I can hear some chirping fragments of the recorded sound.

Any ideas? It sounds like a syncing problem to me, but I don't know where to look for further cues. The FSP40 is currently set to internal clock. Should I use an external SPDIF from the computers other sound card (a 2496), or what do you suggest?

/Frank
Vox, Selmer, Yamaha and Leslie amplifiers. Rickenbacker, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Segovia, Yamaha and Fender guitars. Hammond, Moog, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Crumar, Ensoniq and Mellotron keyboards. Xubuntu+KXStudio recording setup.
basstrombone
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by basstrombone »

Frank Carvalho wrote:I tested my friends FSP 40 today using the tweaks above. It works prefectly when running at 48kHz. I can use a buffer size of 64 samples, and run with a latency of 1.3 ms for tracking. Playback works perfectly.

However, I have problems getting things to work at 96kHz. I can get jackd to start, buffer size 128, and it presents all the firefire ins and outs as it should. Connecting Ardour appears to work, as it is able to see input and record input, showing waveforms etc. But there is no playback sound. The connections are correct, there are output levels at Ardours master out, and master out is connected to the firewire out channels. But no sound.
I tried playing back a file directly to the firewire output with Audacity, and still nothing.
I have compared the setup to the 48kHz project, and all is identical, except the 48kHz still plays back correctly.
I have tried to increase buffer size in JACK, and still no playback sound.
I also had a look at the settings in the ffado-mixer, and they are identical too, apart from the sample rate.
Then I tried to loop a short piece of sound for a while, and in Ardour I can see that the cursor sometimes stops and moves in short skips, as if the transport doesn't work correctly all the time. When this happens I can hear some chirping fragments of the recorded sound.

Any ideas? It sounds like a syncing problem to me, but I don't know where to look for further cues. The FSP40 is currently set to internal clock. Should I use an external SPDIF from the computers other sound card (a 2496), or what do you suggest?

/Frank


Hi Frank,


I know it's gonna sound kinda crazy and nonsense but have you checked ALSA MIXER for muted outputs?
Some years ago I had an E-MU 1212m soundcard (pcie) for some funky reason (who knows) Either Jack or Alsa (had no Idea) would mute the main Playback. (out 1/2) on ALSA MIXER.

Every time I would switch to higher SR (e.g. 96K) I had to go to AlsaMixer and unmute it ..... It may be worth to check it out.

I hope it helps
Frank Carvalho
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by Frank Carvalho »

I’ll check, but this is a firewire interface, and I dont think it is reckognized by alsamixer at all. I did check the ffado-mixer and everything looks right. But thanks for the suggestion. I really dont know what to do.
Vox, Selmer, Yamaha and Leslie amplifiers. Rickenbacker, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Segovia, Yamaha and Fender guitars. Hammond, Moog, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Crumar, Ensoniq and Mellotron keyboards. Xubuntu+KXStudio recording setup.
ifys
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by ifys »

Frank Carvalho wrote:I tested my friends FSP 40 today using the tweaks above. It works prefectly when running at 48kHz. I can use a buffer size of 64 samples, and run with a latency of 1.3 ms for tracking. Playback works perfectly.

However, I have problems getting things to work at 96kHz. I can get jackd to start, buffer size 128, and it presents all the firefire ins and outs as it should. Connecting Ardour appears to work, as it is able to see input and record input, showing waveforms etc. But there is no playback sound. The connections are correct, there are output levels at Ardours master out, and master out is connected to the firewire out channels. But no sound.
I tried playing back a file directly to the firewire output with Audacity, and still nothing.
I have compared the setup to the 48kHz project, and all is identical, except the 48kHz still plays back correctly.
I have tried to increase buffer size in JACK, and still no playback sound.
I also had a look at the settings in the ffado-mixer, and they are identical too, apart from the sample rate.
Then I tried to loop a short piece of sound for a while, and in Ardour I can see that the cursor sometimes stops and moves in short skips, as if the transport doesn't work correctly all the time. When this happens I can hear some chirping fragments of the recorded sound.

Any ideas? It sounds like a syncing problem to me, but I don't know where to look for further cues. The FSP40 is currently set to internal clock. Should I use an external SPDIF from the computers other sound card (a 2496), or what do you suggest?

/Frank
Hello,
I am facing same problem as Frank
at 48k it works fine but 96k not able to hear anything
If someone could help all my project in Ardour are in 96k
thanks in advance
basstrombone
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by basstrombone »

ifys wrote:
Frank Carvalho wrote:I tested my friends FSP 40 today using the tweaks above. It works prefectly when running at 48kHz. I can use a buffer size of 64 samples, and run with a latency of 1.3 ms for tracking. Playback works perfectly.

However, I have problems getting things to work at 96kHz. I can get jackd to start, buffer size 128, and it presents all the firefire ins and outs as it should. Connecting Ardour appears to work, as it is able to see input and record input, showing waveforms etc. But there is no playback sound. The connections are correct, there are output levels at Ardours master out, and master out is connected to the firewire out channels. But no sound.
I tried playing back a file directly to the firewire output with Audacity, and still nothing.
I have compared the setup to the 48kHz project, and all is identical, except the 48kHz still plays back correctly.
I have tried to increase buffer size in JACK, and still no playback sound.
I also had a look at the settings in the ffado-mixer, and they are identical too, apart from the sample rate.
Then I tried to loop a short piece of sound for a while, and in Ardour I can see that the cursor sometimes stops and moves in short skips, as if the transport doesn't work correctly all the time. When this happens I can hear some chirping fragments of the recorded sound.

Any ideas? It sounds like a syncing problem to me, but I don't know where to look for further cues. The FSP40 is currently set to internal clock. Should I use an external SPDIF from the computers other sound card (a 2496), or what do you suggest?

/Frank
Hello,
I am facing same problem as Frank
at 48k it works fine but 96k not able to hear anything
If someone could help all my project in Ardour are in 96k
thanks in advance

First of all,

The recommendation is great!

Doing by what Frank advised plus optimizing your system for audio (i.e. runing Git) plus adding the Raw 1394 line
And creating the 50-timer ruler is mandatory . Is related to FireWire ports please read the audio Linux Wiki page
After doing this I didn't even even needed to install a low latency Kernel
After installing a PCie FireWire Card with a TEXas instruments Chipset (other chipsets won't work as far as my three months of trial using VIA Chipset etc. etc) on an old Desktop from the University I teach, I was able to run the SaffirePro40 in 41100, 48k and 88200 @ 24 and 32bits with Harrison Mixbus and jack backended with the FireWire not alsa with the real time box checked.
System was able to call for all the analog and ADAT inputs.
And yes playing @96K is problematic...
Other downs:
Not able to play YouTube videos anything via jack (probably because we have black listed the send-dice command) which is fine with me (I want a machine that records nicely) If I want to listen and watch videos etc. Just switch to on board and I'm totally cool with that.

Somemfood for thought:

1. It may be also related to run Jack and Pulse Audio simultaneously
2. Last night I've also found a blog discussion in French arguing that the more recently, models do not work on Linux... I Don't know if that's the case. He uploaded some pictures showing the "Newer unsupported models* that resembles mine one...? The only difference is that mine does not display the 2015 manufacturing date. But I'll run some commands tomorrow to check exact model I have.

Anyway, Mine recorded on all the three sample rates described above, from channels 1-8. Don't have an ADA to test de ADAT I but I'll try borrow one and I'll let you know
Hope it helps

Alexandre Magno E. Ferreira (basstrombone)
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by basstrombone »

ifys wrote:
Frank Carvalho wrote:I tested my friends FSP 40 today using the tweaks above. It works prefectly when running at 48kHz. I can use a buffer size of 64 samples, and run with a latency of 1.3 ms for tracking. Playback works perfectly.

However, I have problems getting things to work at 96kHz. I can get jackd to start, buffer size 128, and it presents all the firefire ins and outs as it should. Connecting Ardour appears to work, as it is able to see input and record input, showing waveforms etc. But there is no playback sound. The connections are correct, there are output levels at Ardours master out, and master out is connected to the firewire out channels. But no sound.
I tried playing back a file directly to the firewire output with Audacity, and still nothing.
I have compared the setup to the 48kHz project, and all is identical, except the 48kHz still plays back correctly.
I have tried to increase buffer size in JACK, and still no playback sound.
I also had a look at the settings in the ffado-mixer, and they are identical too, apart from the sample rate.
Then I tried to loop a short piece of sound for a while, and in Ardour I can see that the cursor sometimes stops and moves in short skips, as if the transport doesn't work correctly all the time. When this happens I can hear some chirping fragments of the recorded sound.

Any ideas? It sounds like a syncing problem to me, but I don't know where to look for further cues. The FSP40 is currently set to internal clock. Should I use an external SPDIF from the computers other sound card (a 2496), or what do you suggest?

/Frank
Hello,
I am facing same problem as Frank
at 48k it works fine but 96k not able to hear anything
If someone could help all my project in Ardour are in 96k
thanks in advance

First of all,

The recommendation is great!

Doing by what Frank advised plus optimizing your system for audio (i.e. runing Git) plus adding the Raw 1394 line
And creating the 50-timer ruler is mandatory . Is related to FireWire ports please read the audio Linux Wiki page
After doing this I didn't even even needed to install a low latency Kernel
After installing a PCie FireWire Card with a TEXas instruments Chipset (other chipsets won't work as far as my three months of trial using VIA Chipset etc. etc) on an old Desktop from the University I teach, I was able to run the SaffirePro40 in 41100, 48k and 88200 @ 24 and 32bits with Harrison Mixbus and jack backended with the FireWire not alsa with the real time box checked.
System was able to call for all the analog and ADAT inputs.
And yes playing @96K is problematic...
Other downs:
Not able to play YouTube videos anything via jack (probably because we have black listed the send-dice command) which is fine with me (I want a machine that records nicely) If I want to listen and watch videos etc. Just switch to on board and I'm totally cool with that.

Somemfood for thought:

1. It may be also related to run Jack and Pulse Audio simultaneously
2. Last night I've also found a blog discussion in French arguing that the more recently, models do not work on Linux... I Don't know if that's the case. He uploaded some pictures showing the "Newer unsupported models* that resembles mine one...? The only difference is that mine does not display the 2015 manufacturing date. But I'll run some commands tomorrow to check exact model I have.

Anyway, Mine recorded on all the three sample rates described above, from channels 1-8. Don't have an ADA to test de ADAT I but I'll try borrow one and I'll let you know
Hope it helps

Alexandre Magno E. Ferreira (basstrombone)
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by sadko4u »

Don't leave the Saffire Pro 40 powered all the time.
It has a limited life time of the power supply, after that it exposes and your device doesn't work anymore.
Even the only power supply becomes damaged, it is a really hard problem to find a replacement. I was required to contact directly to Focusrite, and they shipped the replacement part to me.
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
phfactor
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by phfactor »

I was hopeful that this would help me. I have a Saffire Pro 24 DSP. I blacklisted snd_dice for my kernel and tried using firewire as my driver in QjackCtl. But there must be some other issues related to my hardware. I got close. At one point, I thought I had it running, as JACK was able to start. But then I noticed that the firewire light on the Pro 24 was not lit, and I wasn't able to get audio in my DAW (Mixbus). It was only after I un-blacklisted snd_dice and switched back to alsa as the driver that I got audio working again. But, of course, I can only run it at 44.1K and 256/2 or 3. I will try it again tomorrow, just to see if I mis-typed anything. Thanks anyway.
Ubuntu 18.04 low-latency kernel.
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP Firewire interface
Mixbus 5
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by basstrombone »

phfactor wrote:I was hopeful that this would help me. I have a Saffire Pro 24 DSP. I blacklisted snd_dice for my kernel and tried using firewire as my driver in QjackCtl. But there must be some other issues related to my hardware. I got close. At one point, I thought I had it running, as JACK was able to start. But then I noticed that the firewire light on the Pro 24 was not lit, and I wasn't able to get audio in my DAW (Mixbus). It was only after I un-blacklisted snd_dice and switched back to alsa as the driver that I got audio working again. But, of course, I can only run it at 44.1K and 256/2 or 3. I will try it again tomorrow, just to see if I mis-typed anything. Thanks anyway.

I know that's gonna sound boring could you tell if you have:

1. Optimized your system to professional audio https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration
2. Have you installed all dependencies for FFADO ?

As I've mentioned before, my Saffire PRO 40 works until 88200 (which is great) but 96k doesn't . The remaining is just speculation in any case you should check the link I've added above. There is a forum in French describing that some newer models don't work under linux...

I hope it helps

Alex Ferreira
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by basstrombone »

phfactor wrote:I was hopeful that this would help me. I have a Saffire Pro 24 DSP. I blacklisted snd_dice for my kernel and tried using firewire as my driver in QjackCtl. But there must be some other issues related to my hardware. I got close. At one point, I thought I had it running, as JACK was able to start. But then I noticed that the firewire light on the Pro 24 was not lit, and I wasn't able to get audio in my DAW (Mixbus). It was only after I un-blacklisted snd_dice and switched back to alsa as the driver that I got audio working again. But, of course, I can only run it at 44.1K and 256/2 or 3. I will try it again tomorrow, just to see if I mis-typed anything. Thanks anyway.
Sorry, I forgot to ask you:

What kind of FireWire connector are you using ? a FireWire port already mounted in your laptop ? if is a VIA chipset it won't work. I've tested many VIA based PCIe cards and simply didn't work.
YesTEXAS INSTRUMENTS chipsets work nicely

Again I hope it helps
phfactor
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Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40: Tips and tricks

Post by phfactor »

No, not boring at all!. Merci, basstrombone, for both suggestions. I have tried to optimize my machine for audio, that is, I've installed a low-latency kernel, set priorities in audio.conf, added myself to the audio group. Most of this from reading various how-to's and guides. But I've never gone through methodically and used "quickscan," as the link you gave me suggests. So I'm going to do that and report back.

I don't have a laptop. My machine is a home-built core i7 hackintosh that dual boots into Linux. It's built in a wine box. I have dual drive bays, so the linux and Mac OS installs are separate, but they both use the same EFI partition. I have a compatible firewire card that is definitely NOT a VIA chipset, although I can't remember right now what it uses.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm looking forward to going through that wiki.
Ubuntu 18.04 low-latency kernel.
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP Firewire interface
Mixbus 5
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