Paul Davis at LAC 2017

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asbak
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby asbak » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:19 am

glowrak guy wrote:The kids are using cellphone operating systems, mastering multiple social-media accounts,
streaming entertainment, buying things with plastic accounts, so not as green regarding technology and configuration
as you put forth.


They're very good at mastering whatever GUI is presented to them on condition that all the background configuration has already been done for them, so that all that's left to them is to kind of "paint by numbers" to arrange things however they wanted them. What they're less good at is getting under the hood. That's the challenge to most of these folks and why so many are unwilling or incapable of making the jump from Windows & MacOS. Additionally there are other factors such as more software & hardware options, less esoteric issues, more support from commercial vendors etc. etc.

It's a scale thing... the Linux Audio community is a lot smaller, there just isn't as much resource and development effort going into making the entire experience as idiot-friendly and eye-candy rich as is the case with the commercial OS's. And Linux culture is a bit different. It's sort of assumed and expected that users have an interest in gaining knowledge and experience of the OS and that users are motivated to become mildly competent at using and understanding the OS.

Having said all that, I totally agree with you that any motivated and semi-competent person has the ability to figure it all out. It's just that most of them choose not to because they already have all that available to them with the commercial OS's and sphere.

asbak
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby asbak » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:52 am

GuntherT wrote:I remember 10 years ago when I first came across the phrases "Windoze" and "CrApple" and thought they were mildly amusing. Today, it just sounds immature to me.


It may be immature but it's still amusing in the way which immature things often are.

Now I am reading about the "insidious control freak spyware OS"


It's all true. Android, Doze and the Apple cult software are absolutely laced with spyware and mechanisms. Even the Ubuntu plonker (Shuttleworth) made an attempt to jump in on the spyware act but was forced into a hasty retreat and apology after being exposed.

and the suggestion that Microsoft is an evil corporation by the not-so-subtle devil faces encapsulating "Windows Tin"


They are a parasitic multinational corporate entity, in the same way that so many of these corporations are. Corporations are often just gentrified gangs, waging gang warfare on the general public and competitors whilst bribing their way into political office in order to pass laws and decisions which benefit them.

(I don't even get the 'Tin' pun, but maybe you can fill me in).


"Tin" is usually a jargon reference to hardware that the OS sits on top of.

It won't surprise me to come on here one day and hear the accusation that Bill Gates is Satan incarnate.


He is created in the image of Satan. There, I said it.
His crimes against humanity go way beyond inflicting decades of computing misery on the masses.

I just hope when that happens, the community will forgive me when I roll my eyes.


Do whatever makes you happy and enjoy that luxury while you still can exercise such choices. Thanks to the efforts of the GNU/Linux & BSD communities we still have a choice in the world of computing. People who value whatever still remains of their freedom understand this.

It seems ridiculous to me to argue that learning how to boot AVLinux and JACK sync Zynaddsubfx and Hydrogen to a DAW is somehow easier than changing the privacy settings on Windows 10. You just uncheck some boxes.


That's just such a naive statement. Do you really think that flipping a few placebo settings in Doze or MacOS (or Android) magically turns it into a "private" computing environment? Oh dear...... you seem like a very trusting person but these operating systems (and the world) doesn't work quite the way you seem to think it does.

You don't have to learn how to download a torrent, rip an ISO image, change your BIOS boot order, set a JACK master and slave, etc....you literally just uncheck some boxes. I am not making any statement about which OS is more secure, better for a particular purpose, or anything like that, but you seem to be under the impression that it takes more than just unchecking some boxes to prevent data from being sent to Microsoft, so I thought I would clarify that. I suppose if you believe Microsoft is an evil corporation, you probably suspect they don't abide by their own terms of service and would still secretly collect data without a user's knowledge, and if that is the case, there is likely nothing I or anyone else can say that would convince you otherwise....but seriously, you just uncheck some boxes.


:lol:

Goethe said it best:
~"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Drumfix
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby Drumfix » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:25 am

@GunterT

Why do i see this same false argumentation again and again.

GuntherT wrote:You just uncheck some boxes.


Yes, if you KNOW that these boxes exist, if you KNOW that otherwise you will be spyed on, if you KNOW where to find this boxes.
When Win 10 came out Joe User didn't know a shit about all that and those boxes were well hidden from him.
It took experts looking at their router traffic to find out that there was much more information going to Microsoft than they were admitting.

And so i come back to linux. Like with WIn or OSX it is ridiculously easy to setup a working linux if you "KNOW HOW TO DO IT".

The real differences between those OSes and Linux are the following:
Whenever a new version of Win or OSX comes out every online and offline magazine immediately publishes a detailed guide on how to set up it up, and provides some 1000 tips and tricks on how to tweak the system to your needs.
If any major issue is detected with Win or OSX every online and offline magazine immediately publishes the solution in big letters, so Joe User knows about the solution even before he detects the problem on his machine.

With linux, you actively need to search for such information.

GuntherT
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby GuntherT » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:24 pm

Drumfix wrote:Yes, if you KNOW that these boxes exist, if you KNOW that otherwise you will be spyed on, if you KNOW where to find this boxes.
When Win 10 came out Joe User didn't know a shit about all that and those boxes were well hidden from him.
It took experts looking at their router traffic to find out that there was much more information going to Microsoft than they were admitting.


I cannot speak for any of the RC versions of Windows 10, but I installed the release version within days of it becoming available to the public and several times since, and during the installation there are HUGE dialog boxes that ask if you want to keep the default privacy settings. It doesn't take an expert looking at their router traffic to understand this; it just takes the user pausing for a moment and reading what is presented right in front of them during the installation rather than blindly clicking through it. You don't have to go searching; you just have to pay attention. I do not know anyone who has struggled with this, but some Linux users want to portray it like the NSA has your DNA blueprints the moment you look at a computer screen that is running Windows 10.

Drumfix wrote:If any major issue is detected with Win or OSX every online and offline magazine immediately publishes the solution in big letters, so Joe User knows about the solution even before he detects the problem on his machine.

With linux, you actively need to search for such information.


...but none of these online or offline magazines have noticed that during the installation of Windows 10 the user is asked to give the NSA permission to access all of their bank accounts and insert a GPS tracker under their skin? Maybe to date no expert has been able to penetrate Microsoft's devious "Advanced Settings" button at the bottom of those dialog boxes that lets the user change any and all of the privacy settings on the system. I didn't realize I was a genius when it comes to Windows usage.

I agree the documentation for Windows and OSX is better than Linux documentation overall, which is why I recommend AVLinux to newcomers. It actually comes with a manual, which is rare among the hundreds of distros out there. As a community, I think a lot of us agree that the documentation could be better. If I ever get time, I would like to make contributions in that respect.

rghvdberg
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby rghvdberg » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:51 pm

Documentation?
Arch wiki :p

GuntherT
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby GuntherT » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:51 pm

rghvdberg wrote:Documentation?
Arch wiki :p


No doubt the Arch Wiki is an amazing resource for Linux users. I would probably make some YouTube tutorials before I would edit it because the Wiki seems to be in capable hands as it stands.

folderol
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby folderol » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm

Documentation is a major headache. It's difficult to do properly and time-consuming. The hardest part of all, is assessing what (if anything) you can assume your audience already knows. Good technical authors are few and far between - so there's no such thing as a poor one :lol:

Video tutorials are only part of an answer - and they are pretty damned hard to do right as well. To get a smooth polished presentation you must work from a script, one you've practiced before actually recording and one that contains not only what you have to say, but click-by-click what you are actually doing.

Those of us stumbling over live presentations know exactly how easy it is to lose your place and make a hash of it :(

Also, from a users point of view, you can't quickly flick back and forth across a video like you can a text reference, so a video should never be thought of as a replacement.

glowrak guy
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby glowrak guy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:59 pm

GuntherT wrote:I remember 10 years ago

So do I, no BSOD, driver hell, virii, or reinstall tsunami since 10 years of using linux
to make music. Amazing how you win/mac fanbois come out of the woodwork here,
to tell the local miscreants how wonderful the real world is...and blatantly ignore
or gloss over the prevailing issues commonly posted in felp forums for
such perfect non-linux operating systems. You're wearing the tin,
and thus don't know it. To little, too late. Gearslutz needs you more than we do.
Please help them.

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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby folderol » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:27 pm

Things seem to be getting a bit off track. Can we just talk about what can be done to improve, and forget about what's happening elsewhere?

I'm reminded of an old 'Perishers' cartoon where the dog, Boot is howling in pain, only he's not even trying to get off the tack he's sitting on.

glowrak guy
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby glowrak guy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:53 pm

I'm just stirring the pot, hoping Paul might chuckle once or twice.
About improvements, gumroad isn't working for me in either
firefox, or the latest chrome, to get the newest Zyn-Fusion.
Worked fine for the 3.0 and all subsequent releases.
Click the download, and it sits there like a drunken toad :wink:
Just need the linux version for now, I'll pm my proof of purchase in a sec...
Cheers

GuntherT
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby GuntherT » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:06 pm

falkTX wrote:I have to laugh at the thought that unchecking some boxes will disable the tracking...
These options are sometimes reverted after an update, and since you can't see the code there's no way to reliably know what it's saving and sending at a later date.


There was a major update recently pushed to Windows 10, and prior to the installation completing, the system asked the user to reconfirm the privacy settings, so it would seem to me that those settings are not automatically overwritten unless the user blindly clicks through the same dialog boxes that appear during the initial installation.

I fully acknowledge the only way a user can know for sure what is going on with their computer is by reading the source code, which is why I am grateful that open source software exists and that people like you, falkTX, are out there doing fantastic work to advance open source software. I would love, love, love to see the day when all software is open source.

At the same time, I do not know how to interpret source code, so even if all computer code was open, I would still have to rely on people like you, whom I trust, to confirm there are no issues. I do not, however, subscribe to the premise that because some computer code is closed that it is 100% untrustworthy.

folderol wrote:Things seem to be getting a bit off track. Can we just talk about what can be done to improve, and forget about what's happening elsewhere?


I agree. My apologies for being the reason this thread got so derailed. My bad.

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bhilmers
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby bhilmers » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:53 am

glowrak guy wrote:So do I, no BSOD, driver hell, virii, or reinstall tsunami since 10 years of using linux
to make music. Amazing how you win/mac fanbois come out of the woodwork here,
to tell the local miscreants how wonderful the real world is...and blatantly ignore
or gloss over the prevailing issues commonly posted in felp forums for
such perfect non-linux operating systems.

Weird. I used the same installation of Win XP for almost 8 years and never saw a BSOD or had driver issues. Actually, I haven't seen a BSOD or driver issue on Win7 either. However, I have seen a the new and improved BSOD on my co-worker's Win10 computer several times. You gotta give credit where credit is due. Windows makes a solid product. And just like Linux, if you are smart about the hardware you use your system will be stable. That's true of every OS. I choose Linux for a variety of reasons, but I can't fault an OS where no fault is warranted. Microsoft's SaaS model for Windows 10 can fuck right off, but the audio stack and tools are fine. And I'll gladly take the title of Windows fanbot. It's a nice change from all my friend's picking on me for using "that weird Linux shit."

rghvdberg
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby rghvdberg » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:43 am

Imagine having a hammer.
And having it send how many nails you hammered in.
At which time and what day of the week.
How much force was applied.
The speed of the hit.
Which hand you used.

Later you find a switch. And you find a manual stating you can flip it so it won't send that info.

That would be absurd wouldn't it.

It's a great working hammer though.

A hammer is a tool and so is my computer. I should not be worried sending it all kinds of shit to the internet.
That's my overly simplistic view on the state of things.

GuntherT
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby GuntherT » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:38 am

rghvdberg wrote:Imagine having a hammer.
And having it send how many nails you hammered in.
At which time and what day of the week.
How much force was applied.
The speed of the hit.
Which hand you used.

Later you find a switch. And you find a manual stating you can flip it so it won't send that info.

That would be absurd wouldn't it.

It's a great working hammer though.

A hammer is a tool and so is my computer. I should not be worried sending it all kinds of shit to the internet.
That's my overly simplistic view on the state of things.


I chuckled at this, but I can't resist...what if the info sent from your hammer to the internet went into a database of similar hammer models and could predict when your hammer is about to fail. Would it not be useful to receive notification that your hammer is about to come apart before the striking end flies off the handle and does damage or injury to something or someone?

I live in California where a traffic accident can add hours to your drive home during rush hour. I once received a notification from Google on my Android phone of a traffic accident that had shut down the freeway. I turned on my navigation and was rerouted to an exit that I would have otherwise never taken, but if I hadn't been alerted, I would have missed dinner with my family that night.

It is a choice whether or not one is willing to share their information with a corporation. On my Windows laptop, I unchecked every single box in the privacy settings so no information is being sent to Microsoft because I see no benefit in it. However, I have experienced firsthand the benefits of Google having that level of information, so despite it being a little creepy at times, I am willing to live with it because it is damn convenient in many situations. I have no expectation of finding agreement with that opinion here, but I provide my two cents free of charge.

Getting way, way off topic here...I should probably just sign out for a week or so.

Luc
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Re: Paul Davis at LAC 2017

Postby Luc » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:59 am

GuntherT wrote:I agree the documentation for Windows and OSX is better than Linux documentation overall, which is why I recommend AVLinux to newcomers.

No, it isn't! Linux is a lot, lot more documented. Is there even a Windows manual at all? I have no idea about Apple, but I suspect Jobs wouldn't approve any design that requires a manual. That would be sacrilege!

Drumfix wrote:Whenever a new version of Win or OSX comes out every online and offline magazine immediately publishes a detailed guide on how to set up it up, and provides some 1000 tips and tricks on how to tweak the system to your needs.

Linux usually doesn't change, which is an advantage. When it does, we get plenty of coverage from online magazines, too.

Drumfix wrote:If any major issue is detected with Win or OSX every online and offline magazine immediately publishes the solution in big letters, so Joe User knows about the solution even before he detects the problem on his machine.

With linux, you actively need to search for such information.

How can every online and offline magazine immediately publish the solution if they don't have access to the source code? Nope! If any major issue is detected with Win or OSX, you have to wait until MSFT or AAPL publish a fix, which may take from two weeks to a few years. Once it's published, you never really know how it works, what it really is, what it really addresses and what it might possibly introduce.
In comparison, if any major issue is detected with Linux, it is announced to all and sundry, and the problem is fixed in two hours to two days, give or take, with source patch widely available.


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