Ardour 5

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jonetsu
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

I can say the same. I can play a few notes and it will be fine. Then close everything and call it a day. No problem. What is this guy talking about after all ? A user problem between the chair and the keyboard ? No need to provide version numbers, and all that. Works for me, case closed.

But no. As I wrote, I use the Mixbus 32C version of Ardour. That is version 3.6.0. I will have to test with the latest 5.x Ardour.

When I work with music it is HOURS at a time. If not DAYS, when it is possible. Not a bare 17 minutes between two replies.

I like some of zyn sounds, the 'Italian' ones for instance. I would like to use them eventually. I cannot at the moment because of the aforementioned problem. And that's it.

When I'll be trying Ardour 5.x, and if the problem is also seen in there, I can put it in debug mode, as well as hopefully zyn, and have debug output. No problemo.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by sysrqer »

Well if can give any more specific instructions to reproduce it or even what the actual problem is then maybe we could get somewhere, shifting the goal posts between your posts makes it a little difficult. First it was "Simply use zyn in ardour and you can't" now it works on except if you use it for days on end?
Anyway, nevermind. File a bug report if there is a problem.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

sysrqer wrote:First it was "Simply use zyn in ardour and you can't"
It never was. I wrote "it interferes". Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:34 pm.

Inteference means that something is going on, but not all of the time.
sysrqer wrote:now it works on except if you use it for days on end?
Not true about the problem. Hey, see LAU for details. Won't repeat here.
sysrqer wrote:Anyway, nevermind. File a bug report if there is a problem.
See Bitwig forum on KVR to see how detailed my problem reports are. I'll post one to zyn group after I see it in Ardour 5.x and after I have a full debug output to tell people about.

No use in this case without gdb output or a core dump in case of a crash, isn't it.
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sysrqer
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by sysrqer »

jonetsu wrote:isn't it.
I don't know, you refuse to give any information and tell to be blindly hunt across the internet.
Forget it.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by Luc »

jonetsu wrote:Do you run anything in Airwave say, from Melda, or from Waves ?
Melda, yes, I tried Mdrummer and their plugin bundle. Everything worked very well. I remember some of the plugins would take a long time to load the GUI, also some minor glitch in Mdrummer I don't remember exactly, but apart from that, everything worked perfectly. Part of the plugin bundle is free for grabs and keeps, but I uninstalled them because I wasn't overly impressed and I needed the hard disk space.

Waves no, never. Maybe you could try it and get back to us? :)
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

sysrqer wrote:
jonetsu wrote:isn't it.
I don't know, you refuse to give any information and tell to be blindly hunt across the internet.
Forget it.
I did not refuse. I simply did not give any. I can paste from LAU but will not. That's it.
Last edited by jonetsu on Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

Luc wrote:Waves no, never. Maybe you could try it and get back to us? :)
Good to know about that Melda bundle. I will certainly try with Waves but it will take awhile. I just spent some on hardware tube compressor and tube preamp, hardware DSP, speakers, loop bundles, etc... And if Airwaves works well, then that will not be good for the wallet. So I do not mind waiting :) With Linux the choice is limited but when using Windows stuff, with 10,000 plugins available, it could be detrimental :)

One thing though, with 'limited' resources, is that it boosts creativity. And I'm quite happy doing the audio work I do now, there's so much to learn. It's always possible to build a multiband EQ if needed. And what's a transient designer anyways ? (there's the Calf one to try out...).
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Re: Ardour 5

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Re: Ardour 5

Post by forestandgarden »

jonetsu wrote:
But no. As I wrote, I use the Mixbus 32C version of Ardour. That is version 3.6.0. I will have to test with the latest 5.x Ardour.
Hang on, I think I want that Ardour 3.6. Because I've always felt that a properly fixed ardour3 is what I'd be happy with. And I'm not surprised if Harrison Consoles think the same. But in ardour's release notes https://community.ardour.org/releases?page=1 , there's a gap between 3.5.403 and 4.0 . What's more, Paul Davis, who seems to make a point of personally addressing everyone who's just begun posting on the ardour forums, welcomed me like this:
Tue, 2016-08-23 12:22
paul
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For the love of all that is holy in your world, please stop using Ardour 3. The program has serious risk of data loss. Congrats on the solar powered studio.
https://community.ardour.org/node/13886
Quite a bit in contradiction with what 3.5.403 (half) claimed to solve, IN SCREAMING UPPERCASE.
Ardour 3.5.403 is (yet another) CRITICAL bug fix release. ALL USERS ARE RECOMMENDED TO UPGRADE. Additionally, ALL LINUX DISTRIBUTIONS SHOULD IMMEDIATELY UPGRADE/UPDATE TO THIS RELEASE. Distributing earlier versions of 3.5 at this point is irresponsible and risks our users' data.
Later I learn:
Sat, 2016-08-27 09:56
paul
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@forestandgarden: "Maintainance to older versions" is what we are doing ALL THE TIME. The result is new versions

(talking of major versions here. My comment)
Small wonder I lift an eyebrow when I read 3.6.0.
So no, I don't want the closed source improved DSP and in-channel plugins of Mixbus (unless I win the lottery or write a hit. Working on it..), but I would like the open source software it was derived from, in that very version. Even if it wasn't released under GPL because it wasn't released at all, it is for sure based on previous versions (that were released under GPL) to such a degree that GPL is binding. And if I don't want to spark the same debate regarding Mixbus itself, it's out of gratitude for Robin Gareus' great free plugins.

Please, could somebody give me a free beer after so much free speech?
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by gimmeapill »

Hi forestandgarden,

If you really want to, you can get the "inter releases" between 3.5.403 and 4.0 from the github repo:
https://github.com/Ardour/ardour/releases?after=4.3

That wouldn't be my first choice for stability, and I have no idea if they would still build, but there you go ;-)

BR,

LX
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by GuntherT »

Mixbus 3.6.0 is based on Ardour 4, not Ardour 3. Similarly, Mixbus 4 is based on Ardour 5. The two programs don't follow the same numbering pattern for releases. As far as I know, no version of Mixbus was ever based on Ardour 3, probably due in part to the problems with MIDI data loss that Paul mentioned in his post.

I have to agree with Paul Davis. There is no good reason to continue using Ardour 3. Ardour 5 does everything Ardour 3 does and more and resolves many bugs present in Ardour 3. If you are looking for a "properly fixed ardour3", it exists. It is called Ardour 5. If you are looking for the version of Ardour that Mixbus 3.6.0 was based upon, I think it is Ardour 4.7.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by forestandgarden »

Thanks for bringing some light into the version jungle.

I have to agree with Paul Davis. There is no good reason to continue using Ardour 3. Ardour 5 does everything Ardour 3 does and more and resolves many bugs present in Ardour 3. If you are looking for a "properly fixed ardour3", it exists. It is called Ardour 5.
Sorry for having to say this, but given the amount & seriousness of fresh bugs introduced along with the new features of ardour5, this is arrogance to me. I fail to discover an overall positive trend in reliability. What I do find instead, is rhethorical euphemisms: we had a regression.
Being under a constant pressure to update in effect erodes software freedom - you're still posessing it nominally, but in practice you do not get around to adapting software to your needs, because again and again, you'll have to adapt to software first. By the time you got anything working, it's obsolete.
If the linux kernel went by ardour's standards, noone would build on it. The 2.6.x kernel isn't decleared 'dead with the bugs' just because newer versions exist, it's still worthwhile to backport to it, and many contemporary embedded devices use it, like some Korg hardware synthesizers, e.g..
I am still relatively grateful that ardour exists at all, but if I look at it soberly, its position today seems to be beta testing for mixbus, with the somewhat grotesque implication that the only executable version of ardour that its makers would give you to download for free no strings attached, is a demo version of a beta version.

Still I should maybe first try a mixbus demo version, too, to see if it really is more stable in my particular environment where software may hit performance and memory limits relatively soon - not an excuse for crashes, though.
Btw, another good reason for me to stay with ardour3 is that ardour 4 and 5 will display & accept less and less of my plugin collection while overall crashiness on plugin load or plugin gui display doesn't improve at all.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by GuntherT »

I don't think the Linux kernel's development process is analogous to Ardour's. The kernel is a base component of the operating system that interfaces software and hardware. Ardour is an application. The kernel has hundreds of contributors whereas Ardour has only two main authors, if I am not mistaken. It seems you want Ardour 3 to remain in feature freeze while receiving updates to resolve bugs. This duplication of effort isn't realistic when you consider the small number of people working on the project. I am also not aware of any DAW, proprietary or open source, that continues to update old versions after a new version is released, so I don't think this is an expectation held by many others. You are free to keep using Ardour 3 if you feel it is the best option for you, but if you want bug fixes, you'll have to upgrade to a later version or fix the bugs yourself.

Side note, the oldest kernel version available on kernel.org is 3.2, so I think the 2.6 kernel series is pretty much dead. Updating software is inevitable in most cases, even when talking about low-level code such as the kernel.
Last edited by GuntherT on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by GuntherT »

I am still relatively grateful that ardour exists at all, but if I look at it soberly, its position today seems to be beta testing for mixbus, with the somewhat grotesque implication that the only executable version of ardour that its makers would give you to download for free no strings attached, is a demo version of a beta version.
This isn't true. Ardour's site provides release versions. Beta versions are available at nightly.ardour.org. If you are opposed to giving the developers so much as a dollar for a pre-built binary with no restrictions, you can always add the KXStudio repositories to a Debian/Ubuntu distribution and receive the latest version free of charge or compile the source code yourself. Personally, I don't find it grotesque that Ardour developers request compensation for their work, but you are entitled to your own opinion.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by forestandgarden »

I find it totally legit of ardour developers to look for some compensation, but I do not agree to their self-assessment of quality: many 'releases' look 'beta' to me. I also find it difficult to believe that ardours 'core user group' were audio engineers (quoted from ardour landing page) - I have a strong feeling it's home recording enthousiasts just like me.
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