Tracktion5 has arrived

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vehka
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by vehka »

The website doesn't have a v5 download for Linux yet...
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by danboid »

Is the Linux version really free? You mean without cost but closed source, right? I didn't see any mention of this being the case on their website and you need to sign up to their site before you can download anything but if the Linux version is free and unrestricted (except for source access) then this could be a good alternative to those who are unhappy with the current state of free and open Linux audio software and aren't too concerned about the source code access, lack of true freedom and security issues presented by mostly closed software like Mixbus and REAPER.

I'll be trying this out later under KX with any luck. Anyone tried it already? Can it do tempo ramping? Does it support any plugns other than VSTs?
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by danboid »

If it is the case that you have to pay for T5 under Win and Mac but its free under Linux, thats a nice bit of Linux promotion. It could inspire a few people to install Linux if they like this app enough. I'd like to see more commercial vendors do this, if they are unable to fully open source their app.
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by danboid »

Just read the other thread on here re Traktion and it sounds like it supports LADSPA and VST but not LV2 (or DSSI no doubt).

People were giving varying accounts on the stability of v4, is v5 better?
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sysrqer
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by sysrqer »

I look forward to hearing more about this, it would be amazing if it is free even if closed.
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by stanlea »

T5 build for Linux is not ready yet, but it will come as soon as possible. It will remain a "beta" free app, because the Tracktion team can't actually spend as much time as they can spend on the Win and Mac paying versions. From a company point of view, I understand that. So actually, the behaviour of T5 on Linux can't exactly be pedicted. We just can hope... :D
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by danboid »

I've just signed up for their site and noticed the lack of any T5 Linux downloads. I look forward to testing it when the Linux builds get released, 'beta' or otherwise.

The Traktion dev(s) created JUCE too IIRC so I think these guys are doing a fair bit to further the Linux audio cause, more than they get credit for at least.

I didn't try v4 and I think its best I wait for v5 now, which could be much improved for all we know. However, just from looking at its pics I don't think its the crowd puller that Bitwig promises to be.
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sysrqer
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by sysrqer »

danboid wrote: I don't think its the crowd puller that Bitwig promises to be.
Yes, perhaps unfortunate timing but I'm sure the price tag attached to both, assuming T5 isn't free in Linux, would certainly be attractive to quite a few people.
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by linuxdsp »

... and security issues presented by mostly closed software like Mixbus and REAPER.
@danboid: Not sure specifically what kind of security issues you are referring to, but please don't perpetuate the myth that closed source software is inherently insecure (or worse, has something to hide)... Lets not forget that recent Ubuntu distros (which are - in theory - entirely open - passed all your local file / application searches to amazon by default - if a distro can hide something like that 'in plain sight' what else might they consider opting users into, without permission, and you would give them 'root' on your machine...? For commercial companies, open vs closed is really just a choice between two different business models, no more no less.
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Qualitymix
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by Qualitymix »

I love open software. I love libre software.
I especially love it WHEN (keyword here, hold on to it) it is a piece of open software that is continually updated, maintained, properly managed, and ambitious.
I like my closed software. It doesn't bother me (most of the time) that it is non-libre.
In stark contrast to open software, almost all (I know not all) my closed software is updated, maintained, managed and ambitious.
The different here is that there is no guarantee that my beloved open, libre software is going to be updated, maintained, managed and ambitious.
My closed software on the other hand. Well that is part of what I pay for.

When It comes to Mixbus (which I love and use) I am happy ( not just willing, but happy) to pay what they ask for their fantastic product. I love even more that it is based on a piece of open software that I also love and use. To imply there is something wrong with them keeping their source code closed, and ask money for it, is to imply that is it wrong for a software company to have ever benefited from capitalism. I feel that is grossly mistaken and I also feel that the software the company provides is better BECAUSE of capitalism.

The Tracktion team has graciously provided us small pool of Linux musicians the opportunity to use their product for no cost. Tracktion seems to be a decent little piece of software too, that alot of people are going to like.

Of course once Mixbus 3 hits the market, it's going to sweep the nation. :wink:
Beatles style.
Last edited by Qualitymix on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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linuxdsp
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by linuxdsp »

...My closed software on the other hand. Well that is part of what I pay for.
Exactly - or at least that's how it should work - where that goes wrong is when commercial companies use it as a means to lock you into their product. Some open source projects are well maintained by developers who are enthusiastic, and committed to their userbase, some projects fall apart because developers have no obligation to maintain their code and no incentive (or just have a "well it works fine for me" approach and don't care about fixing their code for anyone else). As a (commercial) developer - I've always thought that the focus should be on more open formats or standards - rather than demonizing one developer or another for keeping their application intellectual property (which, like any other property has often cost them money to aquire) protected. As a user I don't care if the application is open vs closed or whatever - I care more that anything I create using that application, be it a document, some music, or any other kind of project, is not 'encrypted' by using some proprietary format that only that one application, from one manufacturer can interpret.
To imply there is something wrong with them keeping their source code closed, and ask money for it, is to imply that is it wrong for a software company to have ever benefited from capitalism
Programmers have to afford to eat too.. :) and I can guarantee that whatever a copy of my software might cost an individual user, I paid a lot more than that for my copy of it... :)
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by raboof »

Qualitymix wrote:In stark contrast to open software, almost all (I know not all) my closed software is updated, maintained, managed and ambitious.
The different here is that there is no guarantee that my beloved open, libre software is going to be updated, maintained, managed and ambitious.
My closed software on the other hand. Well that is part of what I pay for.
I'm don't think this argument holds so generally.

In open source, if a project is "interesting to the community", it can be maintained, managed and ambitious: even when the original author calls it quits, it can be picked up by the community.

In stark contrast to open software, there is no guarantee that any closed software is going to be updated, maintained, managed and ambitious: when the company owning the software loses interest (i.e. because it goes bankrupt or decides the software is not "aligned with their business goals" anymore), the software will get abandoned no matter how much the community would like it to live on.

Now in the particular situation of our still-niche linux audio space, indeed this logic probably does not really apply: there are relatively few developers to begin with, and not all of those are actively taking up ownership of projects that are abandoned-but-still-useful.

In other words, I don't see any reason to think that proprietary offerings would be more "reliable" just because they are proprietary.
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Qualitymix
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by Qualitymix »

raboof wrote:when the company owning the software loses interest (i.e. because it goes bankrupt or decides the software is not "aligned with their business goals" anymore), the software will get abandoned no matter how much the community would like it to live on.
That is a good point, but the only thing that it proves is that there are exceptions in both categories. Of course there are exceptions, but I feel my point still holds as a general observation: commercial software developers have more incentive to work on their software because they are being paid to do so.
I love and deeply appreciate it when open source software developers maintain their software. Some of my favorite pieces of software are open source. I fell in love with GNU/Linux because of the flexibility to do what I want in my desktop environment and have full control over how my computer responds.
However, when a developer decides to abandon his/her project I have no justification for complaining about it. When a company, on the other hand, abandons its software I have financial justification for complaining. This will then reflect on the company and put it at risk for losing consumer base. They have a vested interest in keeping me happy with my product.
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linuxdsp
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by linuxdsp »

In the commercial world a company may cease to exist, and as a result its products may no longer be mainted, software or hardware - sometimes if the product has value it may become the property of another company, or, in some cases the company may make the details available - many hardware schematics are available for long since deceased equipment / manufacturers which enthusiasts still maintain, while some software companies open-source their software dependent on residual value etc.

Equally, a responsible company, also has a commercial incentive to maintain its (viable) products and support its userbase, and sometimes obligations in law - all of which provide the customer with a degree of redress if the product is not fit for purpose or fails in some other way (these are the overheads involved in doing business - as a company - rather than just producing free software as a hobby)

Free software may or may not be maintained - the developer has no obligation (other than perhaps a moral one) to those who have invested time and effort in using or producing works with their software. Abandoned projects may be picked up by other developers, in the same way that commercial product may be transfered to other companies or may be placed in the public domain - there is no obligation there either.

In a specialist 'niche' area of development such as audio software, the developer expertise / skill set required to maintain a project may not be as readily available, or, in some cases the open-source project may be so poorly written or documented it may essentially be considered closed source (except to the original developer).

I think the risks of depending upon either are about equal - you just pay in different ways, personally I would rather see more open formats and standards rather than specifically open software, that way I retain anything I create with an application (and the value in it), even if the application disappears, and in theory I can use another compatible equivalent to maintain what is after all my data.
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Qualitymix
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Re: Tracktion5 has arrived

Post by Qualitymix »

I completely agree linuxdsp. You're the man.
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