HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

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lilith
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:50 am

sadko4u wrote:
lilith wrote:And which slope factor to use in the LSP EQ then and what type of EQ (resonance?)?

You need to use special APO DR filters in LSP equalizer to match the REW settings.
Also, Since LSP equalizer provides APO-compatible filters, I'm currently working on this feature request sent to me as a feedback some time ago:

https://github.com/sadko4u/lsp-plugins/ ... #L196-L231


That would be great!
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby CrocoDuck » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:52 pm

lilith wrote:Is it ok to choose the Generic EQ in REW?

Yes

lilith wrote:And which slope factor to use in the LSP EQ then and what type of EQ (resonance?)?

Settings:

I set up the first equalizer in the LSP parametric EQ as in your settings as an example. See below. The slope control does not affect the APO style of filter.
Image
Hope it helps!
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:53 pm

CrocoDuck wrote:
lilith wrote:Is it ok to choose the Generic EQ in REW?

Yes

lilith wrote:And which slope factor to use in the LSP EQ then and what type of EQ (resonance?)?

Settings:

I set up the first equalizer in the LSP parametric EQ as in your settings as an example. See below. The slope control does not affect the APO style of filter.
Image
Hope it helps!


Thanks! I thought it's not implemented yet. Wow... the difference between e.g. APO and RLC is quite huge. Is it because of different Q definitions?
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby sadko4u » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:10 pm

lilith wrote:Thanks! I thought it's not implemented yet. Wow... the difference between e.g. APO and RLC is quite huge. Is it because of different Q definitions?

This is also because of a bit different filter design:
APO - Digital biquad filters derived from canonic analog biquad prototypes digitalized through Bilinear transform. These are textbook filters which are implemented as in the EqualizerAPO software.

https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals&secti ... r_x16_mono
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby Capoeira » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:08 am

lilith wrote:
CrocoDuck wrote:
lilith wrote:Is it ok to choose the Generic EQ in REW?

Yes

lilith wrote:And which slope factor to use in the LSP EQ then and what type of EQ (resonance?)?

Settings:

I set up the first equalizer in the LSP parametric EQ as in your settings as an example. See below. The slope control does not affect the APO style of filter.
Image
Hope it helps!


Thanks! I thought it's not implemented yet. Wow... the difference between e.g. APO and RLC is quite huge. Is it because of different Q definitions?


why not use one of the LSP convolvers?

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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:36 pm

Capoeira wrote:
lilith wrote:
CrocoDuck wrote:Yes


I set up the first equalizer in the LSP parametric EQ as in your settings as an example. See below. The slope control does not affect the APO style of filter.
Image
Hope it helps!


Thanks! I thought it's not implemented yet. Wow... the difference between e.g. APO and RLC is quite huge. Is it because of different Q definitions?


why not use one of the LSP convolvers?


How will this work and is there any advantage?
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 pm

@sadko4u: Just to make sure that it's correct, what I'm doing:

When saving the filter.req file from REW I have to choose the GENERIC filter type, right? When importing this into your EQ it automatically jumps to APO.

In here I have to choose PK, I guess (as written a page above from here):

https://i.imgur.com/wCQ17zN.png
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby Capoeira » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:53 pm

lilith wrote:
Capoeira wrote:
lilith wrote:
Thanks! I thought it's not implemented yet. Wow... the difference between e.g. APO and RLC is quite huge. Is it because of different Q definitions?


why not use one of the LSP convolvers?


How will this work and is there any advantage?


there is in option in REW to export the filter IR. it then can be simply put in a convolver in the audio chain.
I actualy don't know which one is better. I just always did it like that. In theory with convolution you can have infinite filters, but REW is limited to 20 anyways

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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:26 pm

Capoeira wrote:
lilith wrote:
Capoeira wrote:
why not use one of the LSP convolvers?


How will this work and is there any advantage?


there is in option in REW to export the filter IR. it then can be simply put in a convolver in the audio chain.
I actualy don't know which one is better. I just always did it like that. In theory with convolution you can have infinite filters, but REW is limited to 20 anyways


Ah, I found it. Hmmm... When using the EQ I know what I'm doing and I see which frequencies are filtered. When using the IR response it's more nebulous, but I will try this too. ~5 filters or less is enough in my case. Thanks for the tip.
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby sadko4u » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:00 pm

lilith wrote:@sadko4u: Just to make sure that it's correct, what I'm doing:

When saving the filter.req file from REW I have to choose the GENERIC filter type, right? When importing this into your EQ it automatically jumps to APO.

In here I have to choose PK, I guess (as written a page above from here):

https://i.imgur.com/wCQ17zN.png


APO filters are the most matching filters for the REW file. Other filters are non-DSP-book designed, so their characteristics do not match REW ones. That's why automatically APO filters are selected when you import REW file.

Sorry for delay. I haven't monitored this topic.

APO - Digital biquad filters derived from canonic analog biquad prototypes digitalized through Bilinear transform. These are textbook filters which are implemented as in the EqualizerAPO software.

Reference to textbook: https://shepazu.github.io/Audio-EQ-Cook ... kbook.html
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:04 pm

sadko4u wrote:
lilith wrote:@sadko4u: Just to make sure that it's correct, what I'm doing:

When saving the filter.req file from REW I have to choose the GENERIC filter type, right? When importing this into your EQ it automatically jumps to APO.

In here I have to choose PK, I guess (as written a page above from here):

https://i.imgur.com/wCQ17zN.png


APO filters are the most matching filters for the REW file. Other filters are non-DSP-book designed, so their characteristics do not match REW ones. That's why automatically APO filters are selected when you import REW file.

Sorry for delay. I haven't monitored this topic.

APO - Digital biquad filters derived from canonic analog biquad prototypes digitalized through Bilinear transform. These are textbook filters which are implemented as in the EqualizerAPO software.

Reference to textbook: https://shepazu.github.io/Audio-EQ-Cook ... kbook.html


Thanks, it's working!
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Capoeira
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby Capoeira » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:49 pm

sadko4u wrote:
lilith wrote:@sadko4u: Just to make sure that it's correct, what I'm doing:

When saving the filter.req file from REW I have to choose the GENERIC filter type, right? When importing this into your EQ it automatically jumps to APO.

In here I have to choose PK, I guess (as written a page above from here):

https://i.imgur.com/wCQ17zN.png


APO filters are the most matching filters for the REW file. Other filters are non-DSP-book designed, so their characteristics do not match REW ones. That's why automatically APO filters are selected when you import REW file.

Sorry for delay. I haven't monitored this topic.

APO - Digital biquad filters derived from canonic analog biquad prototypes digitalized through Bilinear transform. These are textbook filters which are implemented as in the EqualizerAPO software.

Reference to textbook: https://shepazu.github.io/Audio-EQ-Cook ... kbook.html


whats your opinion on the EQ vs convolver question?

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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby sadko4u » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:10 pm

Capoeira wrote:whats your opinion on the EQ vs convolver question?

According to the DSP theory, convolution is another way to present the frequency characteristics of the linear system.
But parametrized filters have two huge advantages:
- parametrized filters can be simply edited by adjusting their parameters; to do the same thing with convolution, you need to add additional filter or pre-process the impulse response with this filter.
- if parametrized filters are IIR (infinite impulse response) filters, then they require much less CPU resources than convolution which works as a FIR (finite impulse response) filter.

The advantage of convolution is the following: if you have a linear system that does not need additional post-processing, then loading a single impulse response that represents this system is much easier than building chain of filters with custom parameters.

So these both are the different methods to do the same thing.
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby lilith » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:28 pm

Maybe another thing: Boosting frequencies is not recommended and does not work in some cases. So, I like the flexibility of EQ filters.
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93
latest: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/deeper-and-deeper
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Re: HOWTO: Quick Frequency Response Measurements Using JAPA and Faust

Postby CrocoDuck » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:24 pm

Sorry guys, I did not follow the forums too much in the last few months...

lilith wrote:Maybe another thing: Boosting frequencies is not recommended and does not work in some cases. So, I like the flexibility of EQ filters.


Do you mean using an Impulse Response to boost low frequency? Detailed low frequency filtering can be implemented with FIR filters only if they are pretty long. I reckon that's why it has a high chance of not working: if your impulse response is too short you loose low frequency detail.
Check my Linux audio experiments on my SoundCloud.
Browse my AUR packages.
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