Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

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stratovarius
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Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

I'm about to get my first all tube guitar amp which has neither of these useful extra ports. I need to hear both the backing track and the guitar "as output by the amp" while recording only the latter (the BT gets recombined after). How do some of you do this?
durfnap
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by durfnap »

If you have no chance to get a line out Signal out of your tube amp, it's usually done by micing the speaker wich is connected to your amp. Than use headphones at your mixer or audio interface where you send the microphone signal to, and where you playback your track from your playback/recording device. You have to make sure that you only record the clean guitar signal, not the mixed sound from the mixer. Of course this works best if you can put your stack with the microphone into another room. But what about a FX Send at your tube amp? It's a regular Aux out, and can be used for recording too.
But theres another question you should think about. Its a difference between a clean line out (pre-)amp sound, the sound witch comes out of a speaker and a so called speaker emulated line signal. Espacially with tube amps the difference can be huge!
But there's of course still another solution: use something like this :) It's a device what converts the signal from the speaker out of your amp into a line signal, wich you can use for recording. This has the advantage, that you can crank up the volume of your tube amp (and get the full tube sound) without getting in trouble with your neighbourhood. ;)
Btw, I'm using at the moment the excellent Blackstar HT-5RH Head for this issue. Very nice recording solution for an affordable price. Sounds greeeeaaaat!!! 8)
stratovarius
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

Thanks for the link, it's a little pricey but if it works it's worth it. I haven't decided on the amp yet, it'll likely be a Vox/Marshall/Fender all-tube. I've had a bad & expensive experience with a sampling type (basically unstable & useless except for experimenting). I could mic the tube amp too but for a consistent result it would have to be done outside. I've since found this too

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/17 ... _Train.htm

it's some kind of emulator
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
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autostatic
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by autostatic »

http://www.thomann.de/gb/extreme_isolat ... schutz.htm

That's what I use with my 100W all-tube half stack.
durfnap
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by durfnap »

If you didn' t bought a tube amp yet, I just can advice the above-named blackstar again. The advantage is, that you have a switchable speaker emulation output (switchable between the sound of a 1x12 or a 4x12 cabinet) wich work still if the amp is in standby-mode. This means that you can push the volume and the tubes to the max and have excellent tube sound (stereo! with the nice builtin stereoreverb) for recording without hearing anything from the speaker. On the other hand the 5 watts are loud enough to rehearse with a drumkit or clubgigs. :)
stratovarius
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Resolved [I think] Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out

Post by stratovarius »

After weeks of bending my brains around making the choice I bought the all-tube Vox Night-Train head with a 2x12 cab and the little headset gizmo they sell and I'm also buying the Radial JDX Reactor as soon as I find one for an acceptable price. This will give me more than I need for a looooooong time to come. If I want any effects I can always plug some in. It was all so much easier with the sampling digital one-oh-wonders but this way I think I've got the tuber tamed :-)
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
durfnap
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by durfnap »

Well done! I know the night train because a band college plays one. And a very cooooool look! 8)
Have fun and let the tubes glow! :)
stratovarius
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

yeh, the head looks the way all heads should. The cab is a little too pure black which tends to show up lint & fluff but I don't think my dog will mind :-)
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
stratovarius
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 am

Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

durfnap,

The Radial red box I think does NOT let you play without the speakers, I base that on their diagram showing recording with the aux out as well as micing the speakers. It's not very clear but if I cannot use jut the headset then it's no use for me.

I received the Vox head (no speakers yet) and the Night-Train amplug, I'm not impressed by the latter, the sound is pretty spotty and poor
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
durfnap
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by durfnap »

yes, you're right. If you want to record with hot tube sound, but without a cabinet, you have to look for a "Load Box". That turns the power of your amp into heat. There are a few devices out there with different connections for recording and monitoring, etc and of course for different prices.Ted Weber's devices seem to be very nice and flexible (switchable between Power Attenuator and Load/Dummx Box) to me. ( Nice starting point for technical background information, here too).
From the Netherland comes Koch Amps with 3 devices for your needs: with connectors foor use at home, for a studio environment with balanced output and a "multitool" with headphone output too.
btw, nice sounding true headphone amps are available from orange and marshall. I heard about some guys who use them in combination with a simple sure sm57 for reamping in serious commercial studio environments and swear on it.

Have fun!
stratovarius
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

Since I'm also getting a Boss Me-70 effects box I can (subject to verification) record from that and/or use only a headset. That's the beauty of using an amp that provides essentially only amplification, the only time you need it is when you want to amplify :-)
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
stratovarius
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 am

Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by stratovarius »

the VOX head BTW also has an emulation out jack but I haven't tried it yet, doubt if it will let you duplicate a well loaded amp output

AND

the Vox 212 took much too long in coming so I started looking, and looking, and looking for something else until I decided to make my own

that's in the works these days
The roses are melodies,
The petals notes,
Cast by The Magician's Selfless hands
To ring briefly
Then freely land
On the luckiest, few and ragged,
Children in the pilgrim audience.
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by funkmuscle »

this is by far the best set of equipment for home recording guitar/bass.

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/
Frank Carvalho
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Re: Tube amps, no aux-in or headset-out!

Post by Frank Carvalho »

If you get an all-valve amp, you do so because you want the sound of a driven valve amp. Forget about cabinet simulators. Simulators and stomp boxes will get you some of the way, but not all the way. The magic occurs when the valve interacts with the speaker, and this interaction is non-trivial. The only way to get a genuine valve sound is by using a microphone. If you are content with simulators and line-outs, then look no further than the emulation out jack of your amp, which is exactly what you need.

/Frank
Vox, Selmer, Yamaha and Leslie amplifiers. Rickenbacker, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Segovia, Yamaha and Fender guitars. Hammond, Moog, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Crumar, Ensoniq and Mellotron keyboards. Xubuntu+KXStudio recording setup.
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