Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar setup

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male
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by male »

Broomy wrote:Male,

Great!

My plan is to make a test set up with two signals (which my current guitar has, one for the 3 bass strings and one for the 4 treble strings), I will document the steps I will take and gladly take in some advice from you or others.
I will have to take some time to get to know my way around with NON and mididings.


Thanks in advance.
Ok. Well to get an initial feel for it, just start jackd, start `non-session-manager`, create a new session (let's call it "Guitar Presets/Preset 1") and add `jackpatch` and `non-mixer` to it. In Non Mixer, create three strips, one for each of your inputs, and one master strip to mix them. Right click on the strip that's going to be master and select Auto Input/*/mains. That will set an auto connect rule to connect all the other strips' main outputs to the input of the master strip. Now add some plugins for the effects you want. Connect to your system inputs/outputs and see how you like it. When you find something you like, save that session and click Duplicate in NSM. Pick a name likc "Guitar Presets/Preset 2". A new session will open that's a perfect copy of the old one. Now tweak it for another effect you like. You can switch back and forth between the two sessions by clicking on the session name in NSM (we'll worry about the MIDI->OSC stuff and the global effects later).

Sound good so far?
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by tramp »

Broomy wrote:Thanks male and tatch for your replies.

I'm building a 7 string guitar which will have 7 outputs, one per string.
I want to connect them to a 8 channel usb audio interface (or 2x 4 channel).
From there I want to process the 7 signals either seperate or bundled together.
A preset could be as follows:
Preset 1
(bass)string 1, 2, 3: eq (to enhance the bass freqs)
strings 4 to 7: chorus, echo

Preset 2
all strings processed seperately:
per string fuzz + delay + echo
but the amount of fuzz is different per string

Ideally I would like to switch between presets by using a (midi) footcontroller or have some shortkeys on my computer keyboard.

Does this makes sense?
You can do that with 7 instances of guitarix. Guitarix is fully MIDI controllable, you can connect all 7 instances to the same MIDI controller and switch the presets in any instance with it.Guitarix is designed for live usage, it will switch your presets without a glitch in the sound. You can use the included effects, and as well LADSPA effects.
If you didn't need the amp per string, you can switch it of by select (---) in the tube menu. You can give every instance a name by starting guitarix with the -n parameter (guitarix -n string1 && guitarix -n string2 . . . ). First you can made your presets with one single instance, then you open 7 instances and order the presets for any instance to your needs ( 3 instances with the same first preset, and 4 instances with a other one as first preset,followed by a 2. exclusive preset for all instances). You can switch presets with your num-keys by insert the number, with the picture-up/down button of your keyboard, or with your Midi controller by sending program change messages, additional you can control any single effect controller with your MIDI controller. Guitarix will remember your connections and settings per instance, so you only need to set this up one time and can reuse it easy by setup a little start script, for example, which start all 7 instances at one click.
On the road again.
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

thanks for the usefull advice.
I've installed non.
I will take my time to invest both options and keep you updated.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

I've tried to install non and followed the descriptions of male.
(with some useful assistence from the members of the non irc channel) :!:

This is what I did (using the ubuntu based Bodhi distro):

Adding KXstudio respositories:

# Install needed tools
sudo apt-get install software-properties-common wget

# Enable KXStudio repo
sudo /usr/bin/add-apt-repository -y ppa:kxstudio-debian/kxstudio

# Update software sources
sudo apt-get update

# Install kxstudio-repos
sudo apt-get install kxstudio-repos

# Update software sources again
sudo apt-get update

Installing the non packages:
apt-get install non-daw non-mixer non-sequencer non-session-manager

Then the steps described by male and this resulted in a very easy but versatile setup!
shot-2013-09-26_21-28-30.jpg
shot-2013-09-26_21-28-30.jpg (103.08 KiB) Viewed 1705 times
I'm able to switch between the two presets but sometimes non-mixer isn't starting up. I have to figure out why.

Next up: connecting non-sessions-manager with my midi footcontroller. I would gladly get some advice on that.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Broomy
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

I've updated my non packages by compiling the newest version.
This version impresses me even more. I'm allready a non-lover.

Next up is connecting non-session-manager with my midifootcontroller.
I have to figure out how that is to be done.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
male
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by male »

Broomy wrote:I've updated my non packages by compiling the newest version.
This version impresses me even more. I'm allready a non-lover.

Next up is connecting non-session-manager with my midifootcontroller.
I have to figure out how that is to be done.
Excellent. Ok this page is a little bit out of date, but have a look anyway: http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/UsingMidiWithNon

It describes the basics of how to use mididings to convert MIDI into OSC messages (note that Non Mixer now has a feature to do this directly and mididings isn't necessary for automating controls via MIDI). However, that mechanism has not yet been extended to controlling NSM.

The first thing you're going to want to do is run NSM with a fixed OSC port (so you'll always be sending messages to the same address). This is done by starting nsm like so:

Code: Select all

non-session-manager -- --osc-port 6666
Now you can send a OSC message like osc.udp://localhost:6666/nsm/server/open "Guitar Prests/Preset 1"

The available server control messages are described here: http://non.tuxfamily.org/nsm/API.html#n:1.2.7.

So, the question to ask now is, what kind of foot controller do you have an how do you want it to behave? Are you going to iterate through the presets or assign one preset to each pedal? Assigning a 1:1 mapping of presets to pedals would probably be the easiest, but with mididings it should also be possible to write an iterating state machine as well.
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Broomy
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

It's been a while, but I've picked up this experiment again.
I've switched to kxstudio, and I'm finally getting a low latency and no xruns (1.5ms).
Next up is to loose some noise generated by my laptop.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Broomy
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

I've updated my soundcard to a Presonus 1818 vls.
I'm still using NSM and non-mixer to create presets. I've made a test preset with 7 channels, each with their own effects (reverb, chorus), this worked fine.
I want to figure out a way to change presets fast. Now I have several sessions made in nsm, this works fine but it takes about 5 seconds to change from one to the other preset. This is ok when changing in between songs but I want a faster way when changing during a song / solo.

I have the following questions I want to explore:
- Is there a way to mute several plugins at once (with one button) in non-mixer?
- What plugins can I use to get a analog synth sound?
- How do I get a good powerful distortion using LADSPA plugins?

For now I've abonded the midi-trail, it gives to much latency.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
tramp
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by tramp »

Broomy wrote:I'm still using NSM and non-mixer to create presets. I've made a test preset with 7 channels, each with their own effects (reverb, chorus), this worked fine.
I want to figure out a way to change presets fast. Now I have several sessions made in nsm, this works fine but it takes about 5 seconds to change from one to the other preset. This is ok when changing in between songs but I want a faster way when changing during a song / solo.
tramp wrote:Guitarix is designed for live usage, it will switch your presets without a glitch in the sound. You can use the included effects, and as well LADSPA effects.
Guitarix needs less then 1-2 ms for preset switching. As pointed out earlier, the engine is designed special for live usage. The guitarix engine switch presets between two jack calls. Regardless how many plugs you use. You can also use guitarix inside a NON session, bind in as proxy client gives you the ability to use command-line args with guitarix to set the state to load.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oo-3CLrIE4
Broomy wrote:I have the following questions I want to explore:
- Is there a way to mute several plugins at once (with one button) in non-mixer?
Don't know if you can in NON mixer, in guitarix you still can set a midi controller for it.
Broomy wrote: - What plugins can I use to get a analog synth sound?
- How do I get a good powerful distortion using LADSPA plugins?
Guitarix tubescreamer, multiband distortion (3 band and 5 band), overdrive
On the road again.
tatch
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by tatch »

male wrote: Excellent. Ok this page is a little bit out of date, but have a look anyway: http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/UsingMidiWithNon

It describes the basics of how to use mididings to convert MIDI into OSC messages (note that Non Mixer now has a feature to do this directly and mididings isn't necessary for automating controls via MIDI). However, that mechanism has not yet been extended to controlling NSM.
How does non-mixer do this directly? I have a uc33 midi controller and I can't figure out how to connect it to non-mixer besides mididings.
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

Thanks Tramp for your good advice, I'm now using two instances of guitarix within NSM using NSM proxy.
I've managed to create two sets of presets, and each instance opens the right one when starting up.

Now I want to change all the presets at once with my numeral keyboard. Is this possible?
P.a. pressing "1" to change to preset 1 on every instance.
How do I link the several instances of guitarix? Or is that not needed?
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
tramp
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by tramp »

No, only the window which have the focus recive key events. You can use a midi controler instead. Program change message.
Hint: you can save your midi patchs within the presets.
On the road again.
Broomy
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

I've got everything working!!!
I've got the good of both worlds:
Using the Non-session-manager to open up the several instances of guitarix, together with Catia to view and alter the connections and Jackpatch to save all the connections.
Guitarix is doing a great job. I was a bit afraid that opening several instances will cost me to much of my cpu-power, but I do not have any problems. And the sound(s) are... well great!
I'm using my good old Boss gt-6 as a midicontroller and this works fine.

There is still one minor issue: I'm trying to be able to mute my signal with the midicontroller using a on/off-knob, but this doesn't seem to work, maybe due to the fact that there are 3 options (open / bypass / mute). Any advise?

In time I will make a short " record my desktop"-video to show everything.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
tramp
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by tramp »

Here is a guy creating automated sessions with guitarix and harmony seq
http://jeffhendricks.net/?p=780
There is still one minor issue: I'm trying to be able to mute my signal with the midicontroller using a on/off-knob, but this doesn't seem to work, maybe due to the fact that there are 3 options (open / bypass / mute). Any advise?
I'm nor at home, need to lock at it later.
On the road again.
Broomy
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Re: Experiment: Makin a low-budget Polyphonic (midi)guitar s

Post by Broomy »

Thanks tramp for the link, I've checked it briefly and it sound promising. More to come!

If muting in Guitarix isn't possible, then I can use non-mixer and lead all 7 signals through the mixer and make a midi-connection with the mute button of the master-strip. I have to figure out how I have to do this, but it should work.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
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