Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

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Luc
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby Luc » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:15 pm

VirtualBox is not good. Every time I tried, Windows XP would run so slowly it would take almost an entire minute to open one instance of Windows Explorer. In other words, unusable.

I use VMware with two VMs: one for work and the other for fun, including games that I install, play for 5 minutes then forget about it. The games run very well in full screen, not slow at all, no glitches, nobody would walk past my machine, look at it and realize I am running a VM. And it's all a bunch of files in a directory in my Linux file system, managed by a real, decent OS.

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CrocoDuck
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby CrocoDuck » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:37 pm

Luc wrote:VirtualBox is not good. Every time I tried, Windows XP would run so slowly it would take almost an entire minute to open one instance of Windows Explorer. In other words, unusable.


Cool. I guess I might give wmware a go. I don't think VirtualBox is that bad tho. Actually, Windows XP felt more responsive on VirtualBox than on the real hardware when I was using my old Presario CQ61. I guess that also in this case it is a matter of luck/configuration/hardware/stuff. I tried also QEMU and that is the one that impressed be the least.
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sadko4u
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby sadko4u » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:56 pm

I'm meeting Windows machines at a college where I'm teaching.

All what can I say about windows work: "Please wait, it's loading... Now configuring... Please wait, there are a couple of tasks left... Welcome...".
After I get logged In, series of utilities like Kaspersky and other shit are loading... loading... loading...
Also we can get "Please wait until you computer is installing updates and please do not shut down computer (!)".
"Please wait here, please wait there, please do that, please don't do that..."

FACK YOU DAMN MICROSOFT!!!
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rghvdberg
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby rghvdberg » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:10 pm

sadko4u wrote:I'm meeting Windows machines at a college where I'm teaching.

All what can I say about windows work: "Please wait, it's loading... Now configuring... Please wait, there are a couple of tasks left... Welcome...".
After I get logged In, series of utilities like Kaspersky and other shit are loading... loading... loading...
Also we can get "Please wait until you computer is installing updates and please do not shut down computer (!)".
"Please wait here, please wait there, please do that, please don't do that..."

FACK YOU DAMN MICROSOFT!!!


The endless loading...
I feel your pain :lol:

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GMaq
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby GMaq » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:44 pm

Hmmm,

No wonder you guys hate Windows... There are of course reasons to not like Microsoft politically, but I find some of the other complaints to not necessarily be true in every case. I want to restate I'M NOT KNOCKING LINUX IN ANY WAY. I simply asked if some people here use Windows 10 and if they liked it... a bunch of "I heard about a guy who knows a guy who used Windows and it ate his cat" stories are really for another thread.. :wink: :D

In my experience...

- VM's: I run a Windows XP VM mostly to keep my TomTom GPS and other proprietary USB stuff working, I'm using a 7 year old Q6600 early Quad and in Virtualbox my old XP runs so fast it is not even noticeable at all that it's virtualized, are you sure you have the VM hardware extensions enabled in your CPU BIOS settings for Virtualbox to use?

Installation time? I installed Windows 10 from a DVD onto a computer with an SSD, it was done installing in 10 minutes, which included me scrutinizing the various security questions. In truth the time was about the same as an AV Linux install takes from a LiveUSB. I'm sure installation could totally be affected by a slow DVD ROM or various other factors, just as it can with any OS.

Stability? C'mon to be fair EVERY system is vulnerable to bad updates, not just Windows. If something is working well and you throw a bunch of updates at it you're rolling the dice, that's a general device reality. There are forum posts for every Linux Distribution of people who hosed their system through an update, especially bleeding edgers like Arch, Debian Sid etc. etc.

- Updates, that's no big news and is one of the biggest reasons for Windows 10, In the business world Windows 7 is/was probably the successor to Windows XP and since it had no included malware utilities (you better have 3rd party AntiVirus!!) it was constantly receiving security upgrades to the point of making it quite unusable when large amounts of upgrades were needed. My guess is most of the bitching here about Windows being disruptive in the workplace is targeted at Windows 7, Windows 10 was made freely available to Windows 7 and 8 users to somewhat ease the pain of this, it may still suck, but they made an effort :wink:

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English Guy
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby English Guy » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:17 am

My guess is most of the bitching here about Windows being disruptive in the workplace is targeted at Windows 7


Sorry, my lost morning due to updates was on Win 10. I also on another occasion had updates lock the system; I fixed it just by rebooting after ctrl alt delete. I had to help out a friend who came to me in a panic as his had done the same thing and he thought I was working some kind of voodoo when I fixed his. (People on this forum are mainly tech savvy and it is easy to forget those who are not).

Considering how well apt works (and that the code is public) it constantly amazes me that Windows update is still so bad after so many years of pain.

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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby tramp » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:24 am

My Mother-in-law is used to use windows over the last 10 years. I've gone buy the laps she use. 2 years ago, she want again a new one, because the old one becomes to slow. Now sheave a i5 upgraded to win10. I take the old one, install debian on it and use it now.
On all her laps I've installed thunderbird as mail-client Firefox as browser and open/libre-office for hear office work.
Last month, a windows update render hear lap useless for 3 day's (hangs on boot "a update will be installed"), that happens again one week later. She was totally pissed and asked me, what she can do. I said hear what I use . .
Now, she've a dual boot with mint17 (cinnamon) and was impressed how simple the use of linux is, and how nice it looks. As her main apps been linux apps anyway, she's a happy linux camper now. Win10 is still installed, but she didn't use it anymore.
GMaq wrote:I simply asked if some people here use Windows 10 and if they liked it... a bunch of "I heard about a guy who knows a guy who used Windows and it ate his cat" stories are really for another thread.. :wink: :D


Maybe you are in the wrong forum, check your logs? :lol:
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby folderol » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:44 am

What I find puzzling is the extremes - for all OSs. How is it that one person has not a sniff of a problem, while someone else ends up almost suicidal?
As for Windows, it's only since 10 that the office has now had to pay for support - and they really do need it!
The good news is that the office 'girl' who used to sneer at my Linux box is now silent :)

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CrocoDuck
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby CrocoDuck » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:25 pm

You touched a good point GMaq. We all have experiences about the most disparate things. But we always forget that personal experience is not evidence.

I am seriously amazed by the fact you needed 10 minutes to install Windows. Regardless the medium I used for installation it always required at least 3 hours for me. Even for devices that came with Windows 10 pre-installed the finalization of the installation took at least 1 hour in which I sit watching a circle spinning on the screen. It must be that it depends and many things that probably are due to the particular system involved.

If we were to objectively compare different operating systems we would need to setup a good test machine and properly install/configure the operating systems on it. Then, we would need to measure with accuracy some kind of metric. Few papers were published on the topic of audio performances that showed that performances between desktop operating systems don't really vary too much provided that the systems run on compatible hardware and they are properly configured (they are linked at the end of this post).

I would imagine this to be the case in almost every aspect. That's why I think that the choice of an OS, a part for political/ethical/convenience reasons should be mostly performed on the software. You cannot run Doom 2016 on Wine. Perhaps, not very well on a virtual machine too. Get a Win 10 computer then, unless you feel like your are selling your soul to Satan by doing so.

You asked for experience of people using Win 10 and I do at work. My experience is overall unsatisfactory for the reasons I already listed.

I think that this point is not very fair tho:

GMaq wrote:Stability? C'mon to be fair EVERY system is vulnerable to bad updates, not just Windows. If something is working well and you throw a bunch of updates at it you're rolling the dice, that's a general device reality. There are forum posts for every Linux Distribution of people who hosed their system through an update, especially bleeding edgers like Arch, Debian Sid etc. etc.


It is true that upgrades are always dangerous, but on Windows you don't have a lot of ways to troubleshoot exactly what went wrong and perhaps revert back. It usually boils down to obscure system register settings that were changed, but it is a pain to find how and what. And you must hope that moving them around will not prevent your system from booting... On the other hand a bad upgrade on Linux is on average "more fixable". There are even distributions like NixOS and GuixSD that are built round the concept of reproducible system state. They even allow to boot into different system states... Finally, sometimes you cannot avoid upgrades on Windows. For example, we were forced to do it for hardware support reasons. These are the bad consequences of vendor lock-in and commercial hardware support decisions. More of corporate things than software quality tho.
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English Guy
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby English Guy » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:19 pm

every system is vulnerable to bad updates


In all my years of using Debian stable I have never had a problem with a bad update.

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GMaq
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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby GMaq » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:33 pm

English Guy wrote:
every system is vulnerable to bad updates


In all my years of using Debian stable I have never had a problem with a bad update.


Agreed!

Stable and LTS Distros increase the reliability factor exponentially since most updates are for security and bug fixing rather than replacing existing code with new less vetted versions, I was just saying that updates whether on a smartphone or a computer can occasionally go wrong with anything (including Windows).

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Re: Windows 10... there I said it! Thoughts?

Postby kbongosmusic » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:03 am

In my day job I have to run Windows 10 as a good indentured servant.
It does the basics ok, but I don't like it. It makes me feel dirty.
I run Linux at home(mostly) as a revolutionary action targeted at world domination.
Unless my spouse has to use the laptop for important stuff like facebook games, for
that I just give in and leave Windows 10 running. It's just easier that way.
Linux also has that cute penguin. :mrgreen:


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