LMMS and Carla

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Gps
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LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

I tried to load some windows vst into lmms through Carla.

I then got an error what seems to indicate , Carla is expecting a Linux vst :shock:
Something about an elf header.

Question:
is there some manual for Carla ?

If not, can I load windows vst through Carla in LMMS ?

( I know LMMS has vestige to load windows vst )

Tried a few times to use Carla but I only get more confused every time. :(
Not wiling to give up though. :)

What do Linux vst look like, what file do I want to load into Carla ? I am willing to bet it wont be a .dll file

I am using openSUSE.
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by lilith »

It should be possible to use Linux VSTs without Carla in LMMS. When using windows VST with LMMS you need to have WINE installed:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=19364&hilit=CARLA+wine
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by tavasti »

Gps wrote:I tried to load some windows vst into lmms through Carla.

I then got an error what seems to indicate , Carla is expecting a Linux vst :shock:
Something about an elf header.
...
If not, can I load windows vst through Carla in LMMS ?
I suppose yes, if your Carla is built and configured to have win32/win64 briging support. Mine doesn't look like having working support for them, so can't say does it really work.
Gps wrote:What do Linux vst look like, what file do I want to load into Carla ? I am willing to bet it wont be a .dll file
Linux vst is .so

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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

You could also install the LMMS version from the KXStudio repository. That version of LMMS has Vestige. Vestige is meant for loading Windows VST's. If that won't work, could you post the complete error message (use copy + paste)?

Good luck. :)
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

Wine is not the problem. I have wine installed from official opensuse repositories.

Vestige and at the moment RC 7 of LMMS is working fine, :)

Appimage version of LMMS from the official website.

RC-8 has however an issue on Linux ( loading vst ), the devs are looking into it.

Carla is also from official opensuse repositories, and was last time I checked latest git version.
I do now wonder though how its compiled. because of what tavasti said.

This could explain why Carla is expecting a Linux vst.

The reason I was trying to load windows vst into to Carla was only to learn, on how to use Carla.
So I tried a few win vst, that do work in vestige.

I also downloaded amsynth vst from the official opensuse repositories, and now know what to look for.
Something like amsynth.so. So now I can try to load a Linux vst into LMMS (Carla).
( as far as I know LMMS there is no way to load Linux vst, other then Carla )

Using KX repositories is as far as I know not possible because I am not on a Debian based Linux.
Its another branch with Fedora, Arch and Suse that use rpm.

So I first need to find out if I have Carla with wine support installed (compiled). :)
If for now I can only use Linux vst through Carla, It would be already a step forward.
Still have vestige for win vst like the minimoog in LMMS. :P
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

tavasti wrote: I suppose yes, if your Carla is built and configured to have win32/win64 briging support. Mine doesn't look like having working support for them, so can't say does it really work.
Wow! That's like LMMS not having Vestige support built in the standard repositories from Mint/Ubuntu. Didn't know that.
Gps wrote: This could explain why Carla is expecting a Linux vst.
Now I think so too!
Gps wrote: So I first need to find out if I have Carla with wine support installed (compiled). :)
If for now I can only use Linux vst through Carla, It would be already a step forward.
Still have vestige for win vst like the minimoog in LMMS. :P
So you already have a Windows VST on your computer. Good! First of all the Hat Trick that I forgot myself (link)! Enable experimental options, plugin bridges, and wine bridges. Do this like so:
  1. Go to: "Settings -> Configure Carla -> Main". Under "Experimental" tick "Enable experimental features".
  2. In the Settings Windows go to "Experimental" and tick "Enable plugin bridges" and "Enable Wine bridges".
  3. After a restart it probably will work now.
If it doesn't work yet then try the following:
  1. Go to: "Settings -> Configure Carla -> Paths"
  2. Click on the pull down menu and choose "VST". Add the path to your Windows VST's, for instance: /home/your_name/vst/.
  3. To be sure enable all Wine things in the Wine part of the Settings window.
  4. Click "Add plugin" in Carla's main menu.
  5. Make sure you tick "VST", "Instruments" and "Bridged (Wine)". Notice that in Carla the term "Bridged (32 bit)" means native (Linux) VST's that are 32 bit (most Linux installations on computers are 64 bit now a days).
  6. Click on the "Scan" button at the top right.
  7. Yet another dialog window will pop up. In that window called "Refresh" tick "VST", "Windows 32 bit" and "Wndows 64 bit". Check that in the info panel on the right it says, among others: "Carla-discovery-win32" and "Carla-discovery-win64".
  8. Press "Scan" (wait a long time) and "Close". You'll be back in the "Carla - Add new" window, tick "Bridged (Wine)" again (on my PC it was deselected again).
  9. Pray that your beloved Windows VST will pop up.
Good luck! :)
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

No progress made.

I was not able to load amsynth-vst.so
For a reason beyond my understanding, carla does not see the amsynth vst, but sees a carla vst. in lib 64.
Don't we love computers ? :roll:


When I tried to load a win vst, I again got the elf message.

Reading back the above post.
At point 7, Housten we have a problem.

I can't select the win parts, they are grey......

Will not give up yet, but start to wonder how my carla is compiled.

For now to be continued. :)

Edit:
Posted on openSUSE forums and asked how I can find out, if Carla from the repositories is compiled with WINE support.
I suspect 99% of the forum users to be like: Carla ? LMMS ? :mrgreen:

I will get help though, some will know how to contact the package builders, even if they have no clue on what Carla is.
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Gps wrote:No progress made.

I was not able to load amsynth-vst.so
I'm confused. I thought that we were talking 'bout Windows VST's. They have the extension .dll (dynamic link library). An .so (shared object) file is a Linux library.
Gps wrote:
For a reason beyond my understanding, carla does not see the amsynth vst, but sees a carla vst. in lib 64.
That's because AMSynth is not a VST. It's an LV2 plugin. Carla "disguises" itself as a Linux native VST (i.e. an .so file) so you can use it in in DAW's that do not support Windows VST's (.dll files). If you want to use a Windows VST then you load the Carla "VST" and in Carla you can load your favourite Windows VST instrument. Confusing isn't it?
Gps wrote: When I tried to load a win vst, I again got the elf message.
I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean. I asked you to post that error message before.
Gps wrote: Reading back the above post.
At point 7, Housten we have a problem.

I can't select the win parts, they are grey......

Will not give up yet, but start to wonder how my carla is compiled.
Sorry. Where I said: "6. Click on the "Scan" button at the top right" I meant: "6. Click on the "Refresh" button at the top right". Anyway, if you cannot select the Windows parts, are you SURE that you executed the three steps to enable experimental options, plugin bridges, and wine bridges in Carla that are in my post that you refer to? These IMPORTANT steps are:
  1. Go to: "Settings -> Configure Carla -> Main". Under "Experimental" tick "Enable experimental features".
  2. In the Settings Windows go to "Experimental" and tick "Enable plugin bridges" and "Enable Wine bridges".
  3. After a restart it probably will work now.
Gps wrote: Posted on openSUSE forums and asked how I can find out, if Carla from the repositories is compiled with WINE support.
I suspect 99% of the forum users to be like: Carla ? LMMS ? :mrgreen:
It's Vestige support that you need in LMMS for Windows VST's to work. If Vestige support is in LMMS can be easily checked like so: in LMMS click on "Instrument plugins". Then you see a long list among which is Calra. in that list should be an option called "Vestige". See screenshot below:
Image

Maybe my personal text file that I made for myself about the VST and plugin confusion in Linux might help. It may not be 100.00% technically accurate, but it might help:

Code: Select all

__     ______ _____                   _         _             _           
\ \   / / ___|_   _|   __ _ _ __   __| |  _ __ | |_   _  __ _(_)_ __  ___ 
 \ \ / /\___ \ | |    / _` | '_ \ / _` | | '_ \| | | | |/ _` | | '_ \/ __|
  \ V /  ___) || |   | (_| | | | | (_| | | |_) | | |_| | (_| | | | | \__ \
   \_/  |____/ |_|    \__,_|_| |_|\__,_| | .__/|_|\__,_|\__, |_|_| |_|___/
                                         |_|            |___/         
               - on Linux -



Contens
~~~~~~~
1. VST

2. LADSPA and LV2

3. Paths and env. vars






1. VST
~~~~~~
There are two types of VSTs: Windows VSTs (i.e. Steinberg Cubase compatibe) and Linux native VSTs. We'll forget about Linux VST's (there are 32 bit and 64 bit Linux VST's: Carla calls them "Native" and "Linux 32 bit"). 

There are 32 bit and 64 bit Win VSTs. The most popular versions were 1.0, 2.0, 2.4 and 3.0. On 64 bit Windows the old 32 bit VSTs do not work anymore (99% of Win versions are 64 bit now a days), so you need a "trick" to make 32 bit VSTs work. Lots of old, but very good, 32 bit VSTs have been made free by the authors.  

Windows VSTs can be used in Linux in a few ways. The oldest is DSSI ("Dizzy") but that only works with 32 bit VSTs and it isn't supported by modern DAW's anymore. Carla can handle Windows 32 bit and 64 bit VSTs, Linux VSTs, LADSPA, and LV2. Airwave and LinVST enable you to use 64 bit VSTs [2][3] too. Don't use them.


2. LASDSPA and LV2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are LADSPA and LV2? LADSPA is the oldest Lunux API for plug-ins. Best known LADSPA's are those by Steve Harris (install via KXStudio repository), e.g. filters, delays, etc. LV2 is an extensible successor of LADSPA effects. Best known LV2's are the Calf plug-ins (install via KXStudio repo) known for their slick GUI.


3. Paths and environment variables
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By default these are the LV2, LADSPA and VST paths where most apps look for them:
 
      /usr/lib/ladspa/ 
      /usr/lib/lv2/ 
      ~/vst (if $VST_PATH is NOT set)
      ~/.vst (if $VST_PATH IS set)

Per default in a Linux distribution these paths are not set via an environment variable. However, you install "Cadence" then the VST path is set to ~/.vst. Notice: in general variables that are set via ~/.bashrc or ~/.profile etc. are NOT read if an application is started outside of a terminal (i.e. via a graphical menu). Solution might be to run Qtractor via a shell script and set these paths in it:

      VST_PATH=$VST_PATH:/home/your-name/vst

However, if one sets $VST_PATH with Cadence then (after a re-login) the paths ARE read if one starts Qtractor outside of a terminal.  
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

Thank you, I will read the file. :)

To stop the confusion, I am trying two things, to load a windows vst, and a Linux vst.

The windows vst I tried, do work through Vestige, so I know wine is not the problem nor the vst.

( 4 front piano and a minimoog vst)

I installed from the official repositories Amsynth and amsynth-plugin-vst.

The last one I am trying to load into Carla, it has .so as extension.

From yast ( the package manager )
/usr/lib64/vst
/usr/lib64/vst/amsynth_vst.so Carla does not seem to see it though, I cant select it.

The error I get when trying to load a windows vst is about a missing or incorrect elf header.
When I googled elf header, I found this to be a Linux file.

I have emailed the opensuse package guy, so hope to get an answer if Carla is compiled with wine support. :)
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

I have an answer from the openSUSE, Carla package builder.

He does not have enough time any more to do it. He did not know you can also load win vst into Carla.

So my carla is not compiled with wine support. :)

I was so stupid to offer my help, and I might end up as the Carla maintainer for openSUSE. :shock:

Be careful with reporting issues on Linux, you might end up helping :wink:

I am a bit worried if I am good enough.

Once compiled doom 3 so it would run on openSUSE, and it was as easy as copy pasting 3 to 4 commands , download some stuff and copy some game stuff over from windows to Linux.

So I thought, it would be just as easy to compile LMMS and Carla, boy was I wrong.

So it seems I have two options, compile Carla my self or switch distro's. :mrgreen:
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Gps wrote:I have an answer from the openSUSE, Carla package builder.

He does not have enough time any more to do it. He did not know you can also load win vst into Carla.

So my carla is not compiled with wine support. :)

I was so stupid to offer my help, and I might end up as the Carla maintainer for openSUSE. :shock:

Be careful with reporting issues on Linux, you might end up helping :wink:

I am a bit worried if I am good enough.

Once compiled doom 3 so it would run on openSUSE, and it was as easy as copy pasting 3 to 4 commands , download some stuff and copy some game stuff over from windows to Linux.

So I thought, it would be just as easy to compile LMMS and Carla, boy was I wrong.

So it seems I have two options, compile Carla my self or switch distro's. :mrgreen:
The version of LMMS that came w/ my distribution didn't even have Vestige built in. Had to use the version from the KXStudio repo for that. I agree that the Carla version that you use might be crippled. Unfortunately I have to agree with you: you might have to switch distro's.

In two posts above this one you indicated that Carla cannot find the Amsynth plugin. Amsynth is an LV2 plugin and you've managed to find it's location (i.e. /usr/lib64/vst/amsynth_vst.so). You might want to try to get Carla to find and load said LV2 plugin this way:
  1. Start Carla and in the pull-down menu click on: "Settings -> Configure Carla". The Settings window should pop up.
  2. In the Settings window go to "Paths" and choose "LV2".
  3. Now click on the button "Add" and browse to /usr/lib64/vst/
  4. Restart Carla and hope it'll find the Amsynth LV2 plugin.
.
I hope that helps, good luck! :)
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Re: LMMS and Carla

Post by Gps »

Thank you, and will try. So its called a vst but still is a LV2 plugin. :?

Some people should not be allowed to name things. :P



I have been looking at other distro's.

Kx Studio and Av Linux to name two, but also Arch.

I don't 't have to explain why I looked at the first two.

I looked at Arch to really get to learn Linux, opensuse is far to user friendly for that. :)

You can change probably everything in openSUSE through YAST.
Yast I would miss because no other distro has this. ( source of this statement is an Ubuntu forum )

Yast is 99% of the time the answer to any question on opensuse.

When suse and nvidia have messed up my pc, I still can get into yast through the command line.

I really like suse although for making music kx studio and Av Linux are probably the better choice.
Ardour and Amsynth are in the opensuse repositories though.

What also is great about suse is the forum. Very helpful and friendly to new users, but also enough experts around to answer the tuff questions.

Put some effort into it, and you have the SUSE licence guy talk with the Valve (steam) license guy.

But no Carla with wine support yet :P
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